Planned dust collection system

[DennisCA]

Hmm, but if one builds ones own DC blower as I might do, then I could perhaps just build it with a big enough port and I could skip using a reducer, 170mm perhaps, with all tubing ahead of the separator being 150-160mm. If I am going to use this 5hp motor of mine anyway.

I was also wondering the same about my little china cyclone, if I should increase the outlet on it or not, but I think with my current vacuum motor for it, that it's too weak to work effectively if I did so, the 50mm piping I have on it now is almost too much for it, built for 38mm originally. I would like to build a wandel style blower for it too so I could get more suction, but need to find a nice priced motor or two... currently on paternity leave with my twin boys so I have somewhat reduced income as well for the time being.

Other things I've picked up from reading the archives here seems to be, bigger diameter = better separation, also more height = better separation, so I am thinking I'll be making a double height separator.

[retired2]

Hmm, but if one builds ones own DC blower as I might do, then I could perhaps just build it with a big enough port and I could skip using a reducer, 170mm perhaps, with all tubing ahead of the separator being 150-160mm. If I am going to use this 5hp motor of mine anyway.

I was also wondering the same about my little china cyclone, if I should increase the outlet on it or not, but I think with my current vacuum motor for it, that it's too weak to work effectively if I did so, the 50mm piping I have on it now is almost too much for it, built for 38mm originally. I would like to build a wandel style blower for it too so I could get more suction, but need to find a nice priced motor or two... currently on paternity leave with my twin boys so I have somewhat reduced income as well for the time being.

Other things I've picked up from reading the archives here seems to be, bigger diameter = better separation, also more height = better separation, so I am thinking I'll be making a double height separator.

Well, 5hp sounds adequate for 6" (150mm) mains, and I would not suggest going larger than that because above that size the law of sharply diminishing returns applies.  The only reservation I have is 5hp sounds big, but since it is a DIY project, it's real performance specs might be difficult to determine.

[DennisCA]

Well since I already have the motor and I think a DC is better purpose for it than powering a small jointer it's not like I ought to have anything to lose by making it "too big"?

[jgt1942]

Interesting question!  :)

Some time ago I read the results of research completed comparing the Thien and Cyclone. I cannot find the post at this time but the Thien and Cyclone separation results was almost the same.  The research was completed by a city gov if I recall correctly.

[tvman44]

That would be interesting to read. :)

[DennisCA]

In order to get moving I've decided to scale down the project a bit so it becomes more affordable, ducting and especially the bends and connections where so expensive I wouldn't be able to acquire the required equipment for a good long while.

So I'm building a more scaled down version based on Matthias Wandels plans and using a smaller 1HP motor. The first challenge is building the impeller.

I am quite excited about this impeller design and the build, from what I can tell it is a lot more effective than the stuff you find in regular DC's (his 2/3rds HP blower outperformed his commercial 1.5HP DC), but you trade off having a material handling collector, this design needs prefiltering, but that seems like a more than fair tradeoff, it was what I was planning anyway, so why sacrifice power?

[DennisCA]

Looks like I went back on that promise. I am building an impeller for the 4kw motor now anyway, took it off my jointer and I also made the plywood discs and routed grooves into them. I didn't pay that much attention to which way I made the vanes go, but when I realized it I had already done two of them, I figured it would be no problem anyway, this motor is super easy to reverse. A nice thing about 3ph motors that, it's a heavy lunk though, probably 35kg. I took a bit of chance buying that motor since the seller said it was taken out of service prior to 1980, but it works real nice and was only 25 euros:


I set up the bandsaw to cut veneer to make laminations for the vanes, but had to improvise to get thin enough cuts to make laminations from, so I used my router tables subfence. It's a limitation of the fence design of my bandsaw, it's very old, 60 years, likely older, I think.


Unfortunately my cameras SD car seem to get some kind of error and the picture of the veneer lying in the clamping form (after I steamed it) didn't make it and I don't feel like going out to the garage again tonight, so I'll get another pic when I glue the laminations. Have a picture of my shop vac instead:


I think if this whole impeller things work, I'll make a smaller one and replace the shop vacuum in this one, and likely the cyclone too with a thien baffle. Maybe I'll mount the vacuum motor and cyclone in the router table or something.

[R.True]

Nice, I requested pictures in your other thread re:material for building an impeller but never mind.

Looking good.  That's gonna be one heck of a dust collector at 5HP and a 20" impeller.  Should work real well.

[DennisCA]

Bending and laminating isn't as easy as it looks and the results of my first vane where disappointing, it went in the trash. I'm considering buying 1mm thick sheets of balsawood now to laminate with, also building an improved jig. The biggest issue is the width, 10cm wide. The jig I  am now looking at is like the one drawn here, I would modify it a bit to use clamping cauls so I get even pressure across the width:
http://www.wood-w.com/lessonsguides/lessonsguides-tapered-laminations-made-easy.html

Another alternative might be to try and bend out that piece of PVC (or whatever plastic it is, you can see a piece of it in the first picture), it was kinda springy and almost the right size, maybe with heat it could bend into a suitable form.

[R.True]

Bending the PVC should work but you'll want to cool it in a mold so it holds its shape and so each vane is uniform.

Check this guy out, you'll get a good idea of how easy shaping the PVC is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TbXBlQjRl4

Bending wood is pretty easy though, you need heat and steam and then a mold to hold the shape.

[DennisCA]

Yeah I had all that, but I can't say it was easy. It was a slow and messy process and the glue up failed and produced inconsistent results for me. The things I made this weekend where just trash worthy. Definitely a learning curve involved here. So hoping this new and improved jig will make glue ups easier. I think with a heat gun I could bend PVC in this as well.

[DennisCA]

ALso found a pipe of suitable size, 500mm diameter, 1 meter piece I could cut into vanes. 30 euros for a piece. It sounds very interesting.

[R.True]

ALso found a pipe of suitable size, 500mm diameter, 1 meter piece I could cut into vanes. 30 euros for a piece. It sounds very interesting.

That sounds promising.

[DennisCA]

Going to pick it up tonight and a 2.2kw electrical motor (to replace the 4kw one going to my DC, used to be on my jointer/planer, it was too big for that little machine though).

Won't have a lot of time this week to work on the DC though, have to do yard work:
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5446/17642152710_3475d0db2c_k.jpg

[DennisCA]

Got the pipe home but I went for a much thicker one instead:


It's a bit smaller diameter but I thought it was worth it for that thickness.

And the motor, incredibly heavy for a 2.2kw one: