New build....Here we go....

[Rudy81]

Before I get started, I wanted to thank Phil for his work and dedication to the design of his baffle.  I am grateful for all your research and the assistance you give us DIY types.  Well done sir!

I am planning on using a new Jet 1100 in a top hat design and had a couple of questions that I have not been able to answer by looking around forums and pictures.

My plan is to mount the Jet 1100 motor and blower vertically, on top of the separator, and exhaust to the outside. This is a small, 400 sq. ft. standalone one man shop.  Biggest dust producer is my TS.

I am considering using the Jet separator and building a baffle for it, but the inlet seems to be only 5" (I haven't opened the box yet). My assumption is that the 5" inlet is a compromise when planning on using 6" pipe.

First question is, am I better off building a custom separator with a 6" inlet, vs the Jet 5" separator inlet?

Second, if I build a separator, will I benefit from making its depth 12" or something deeper than the inlet tube?

Third, in a DIY separator scenario, will I benefit from angling the inlet tube slightly down toward the baffle?

Fourth, any definitive recommendation on whether the  vertical pipe going to the DC should be flush with the top of the separator, or should it enter deeper into the chamber?

I appreciate any help in building the most optimum design in order to maximize efficiency.  I'll post pictures as I proceed.

[Bulldog8]

I am considering using the Jet separator and building a baffle for it the inlet seems to be only 5" (I haven't opened the box yet). My assumption is that the 5" inlet is a compromise when planning on using 6" pipe.

I'm running a 6" main duct to the tophat and then 5" from the tophat to the blower. Works, but I don't know if I took a hit or not. My DC is a Griz 1029 2 hp that originally had a Y the had two 4" branch's so I didn't think that the 6 to 5 would hurt too bad on the outlet, but I wouldn't want to choke the inlet.

First question is, am I better off building a custom separator with a 6" inlet, vs the Jet 5" separator inlet?

Pretty easy to build a custom tophat and your own inlet, that lets you go from round to rectangle.

Second, if I build a separator, will I benefit from making its depth 12" or something deeper than the inlet tube?

I did both and guesstimate that I get better fine separation with the tall chamber

Third, in a DIY separator scenario, will I benefit from angling the inlet tube slightly down toward the baffle?

On my build it sure seems to help, I get a definite downward swirl.

Fourth, any definitive recommendation on whether the  vertical pipe going to the DC should be flush with the top of the separator, or should it enter deeper into the chamber?

If you build a chamber the thickness of your inlet, say 6" and have a 5" outlet pipe, the outlet pipe should protrude 1/2 of that diameter or 2 1/2" down into the chamber. If you make an artificially deep chamber add the extra depth to the 1/2 diameter distance.

[Rudy81]

Thank you for the prompt reply. In my case, I am going to use a new Jet DC-1100 VX (new vortex cone in the separator).

From the top of the Thien separator, it will for sure be 6" since that is the size of the DC impeller inlet.  My next decision will be whether or not to use the Jet separator, with vortex cone, as the Thien separator, or as you suggest, make a DIY separator and take advantage of the increased depth.  I will likely go the DIY route vs. using the Jet separator, since the Jet has a 5" in inlet and I will in effect choke off some of the capability.

I'm in the process of re-arranging my shop to allow for efficient piping and creating a dedicated location for the DC setup.

[alan m]

i agree with bulldog.  make it higher should increase fines seperation.
i would go 6" anyway incase you ever deside to upgrade the dc  to a full 6" inlet.

i wouldnt use the jet seperater ring . its already got that cone that would need to be removed (perminently distroying it if you ever sell)
you can make your own seperater the way you wnat it and not be confined by the jet ring

[Rudy81]

alan m, good points on using the Jet ring.  I don't want to damage it in case I ever need or want to sell. 

Perhaps I didn't state my questions clearly, but going to 6" for an inlet to the Thien separator is the reason for looking into making one.  The initial problem I saw with the Jet ring is that it's 'inlet' is only 5" since it is normally used to carry the dust to the collection bag via the Jet ring. In my setup, this would limit the intake since the Jet ring will be used at the Thien inlet.

Looks like a DIY project is the way to go.

[Rudy81]

Started my build today and hope it comes out as well as some of the excellent examples on this site.

Does the thickness of the baffle make a difference?

I am trying to use all the good ideas I have seen here, so I will include a bellmouth, a round 6" to rectangular inlet (which I found at HD), plexiglass sides and am making it deeper than just the 6 or so inches of most.

I wish the site had a list of FAQ's for top hat builds.

[tvman44]

Not first hand info but I have seen posted on this forum more than once thinner is better. :)

[Rudy81]

Not first hand info but I have seen posted on this forum more than once thinner is better. :)

I had gathered the same.  I was hoping Phil might comment since he is the authority on the subject.

[Bulldog8]

I made my first separator with a 3/4" baffle and chamfered the edges; it worked ok. Later I made a 5 gallon separator for use with a shopvac and used 1/4" hardboard. Hard to tell which was better as one was with a DC and ducts the second was a shopvac set up.

This past winter, I rebuilt my main DC separator and used a thin metal plate. It seems to separate out fines better than the original with the 3/4" baffle, but I also changed the inlet and chamber height so it's hard to say which of the changes gave the most improvement. Overall, the separation of fines is now very good.

[Rudy81]

Bulldog 8, thank you.  I actually have been following your posts and am looking at making something similar to your design in terms of height and a rectangular inlet. For the inlet, I found a Galvanized Sheet Metal Range Hood Straight Boot Adapter in home depot. It has a 6" inlet that converts to a 3.25" x 10" slot.  Area remains roughly the same, so I am hoping it works.


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Speedi-Products-3-25-in-x-10-in-x-6-in-Galvanized-Sheet-Metal-Range-Hood-Straight-Boot-Adapter-SM-RH3106-SB/202907196

I believe you also used plastic for your separator walls.  How did you attach the ends to each other in order to complete the tube?  I am hoping to stay away from using screws due to the experience of some builders who ran into cracking etc.

Right now I am planning on using a GE product made for adhering acrylic and lexan.  My current plan is to simply overlap the acrylic by a couple of inches.  This should provide a good amount of surface area for adhesion. I am hoping the airflow will not be disturbed too much.

I need to figure out if that GE glue will work on plastic adhering to MDF or wood. This is the silicone adhesive, which GE says it works on Lexan, acrylic and metal, which should be perfect for our application. I did see a youtube video of a comparison of plastic adhesives and this one was really strong.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-10-oz-Silicone-Cartridge-GE-55/202038071?keyword=ge+silicone+sealant+plastic

[Rudy81]

Decided to jump right in so will chronicle the project here.  If any of you have suggestions that might improve things, please don't hesitate to let me know.  I am trying to use the a combination of the great ideas others have suggested.

The Thien baffle will be taller than usual, made of acrylic sides, MDF for top, bottom and support.  6" inlet round to rectangular as explained in my previous post.  The 6" outlet to the DC will have a bellmouth and although I was going t order the one used by 'retired2', I may be going with another option after talking with the folks at Penn State Industries.

Trash can is 44 gal. Brute plastic container and I plan on putting an acrylic window on it so I can monitor fill level.

First picture is the baffle, built into the bottom section.  In order to make it thinner than the 3/4" MDF, I just used my router to make the baffle itself thinner.  This is just after initial cutting.

Second is the Acrylic sheet I will be using, roughly 18" tall. I placed it outside to let the sun warm it up and hope it will retain a tubular shape.

Finally is the inside of the top section with a slot to receive the top of the Acrylic.

[Bulldog8]

I didn't join the ends together. The groove in the top starts at the inlet and stops at the end of the 240 degrees. The only portion of the baffle that was grooved is the 120 degree area.

I don't have many pictures of my last build with the tall chamber, but here is a shot of my first separator to show what I mean. My current tall chamber separator is similar, the top groove starts at the inlet and goes all the way around stopping just short of where the inlet starts. The bottom plate is grooved from the inlet through the 120 degree solid area. The bottom of the wall is then free through the 240 degree area, with a small stop groove right where the inlet is located. The outer wall is sized to press fit in and has been sealed to the wood surfaces with clear silicon.

[Rudy81]

Bulldog8, thank you. I see what you did now.  How did you adhere the lexan or acrylic to the wood structure?

[tvman44]

I would think making the top hat that tall would improve the collection of fines, would be curious to find out how it functions, I  would like to redo one of my collectors to try and improve fine collection and thinking about making a tall top hat, just had not considered that tall. :)

[Rudy81]

I would think making the top hat that tall would improve the collection of fines, would be curious to find out how it functions, I  would like to redo one of my collectors to try and improve fine collection and thinking about making a tall top hat, just had not considered that tall. :)

My decision to make it taller than the usual 6" or so was due to several that I saw here and on other sites that were taller.  The videos I saw on youtube with tall top hats show a really well defined cyclone action all the way to the baffle opening, so I figured I'd try it.  My minimum height would need to be 10" since that is the height of the rectangular opening on the inlet. 

I used the very scientific method of just splitting the sheet of acrylic in half, about 18" and just figured I'd use that.  It should provide about 8" below the inlet of continuous cylindrical area for the vortex. 

I am going to try very hard to minimize any 'final' adhesion or permanent attachments that will prevent me from re-working the design in case it does not work as I imagine.