Delta 50-760 separator design ideas

[rplatt]

I've got a Delta 50-760 which I roll from tool-to-tool, and would like to improve it by adding a separator that sits beneath on the cart.  I've found a source of 30-gallon fiber drums, which will fit nicely on the cart.  A couple of questions:

I've seen a couple of posts where people had considered placing the inlet (from the tool) on the side of the separator.  Can anyone provide any positive/negative results from doing this?

I'm also considering making the baffle from a second fiber drum, cut down to 10" height and placed upside-down over the first.  This would allow more volume for collection - any comments about attaching the two would be helpful.

Last, I'd like to use a plastic bag inside to help with clean-out.  What types of material have people used to hold the bag to the sides of the collector?  I've seen plastic laminate suggested, but think that might be too brittle.  Also, if this were cut several inches higher than the bottom drum, it might help me align and seal the two drums together.


Rob

[phil (admin)]

Well, if you can bring your inlet in from the side, rather than the top, you'll eliminate one elbow (and the resistance that it brings).  It would be a substantial improvement if you can work it out.  I have had people pull it off, BTW, but it takes a bit more work.  I've posted a pic of a unit that was nicely executed to give you an idea.

And yes, if you have the space, then the upside-down vertical expansion using a 2nd drum will work.  You'll just have to figure out a way to seal it.

Finally, people that use plastic bags roll up a piece laminate (Formica, for example), place it in the bag, then let it go.  It expands and pushes the bag against the sides of the container and keep it there (so the suction doesn't pull the bag out).  When they're ready to toss the bag, you just have to remember to slide the laminate out first.

[bennybmn]

Personally I think having the inlet on the side is an awesome idea. You'll notice in the body of your DC, that's how it works! Not only does it eliminate an elbow like Phil said, but it also takes that elbow OUT of the way! So when the stuff starts spinning, it just keeps going and going. I bet you get better cyclonic action (but that's just a gut feeling...). If I were to do one, I'd do it that way.

As for the upside down thing, rather than trying to use the laminate or other internal material to locate the upper half, how bout screwing a lip to the outside of one half? Either take a flexible strip or something and bend it around the drum creating a lip, or just screw a bunch of wooden tabs around the outside? Or glue them maybe? Depending on the material of the drum itself...

And to keep the bag in place, formica, screen material, whatever's cheap!

[digger]

I just purchased the Delta 50-760 and will also be trying to make a separator.
If I may ask, what's your source for the fiber drums. ?
What type of 4" hose are you getting ?

I'm very new at this, so there will be probably be a lot more questions.

Thanks

[rplatt]

I almost bought a 30 gallon steel drum from a local drum recycler here in Kansas City, priced at $30.  Instead, I found a cheaper alternative on ebay (I've got access to cheap shipping).  The steel drum may have been the most resistant to collapse, but I opted for fiber because it was easiest for me to modify / cut.

I'm collecting 5" connectors now, and will post some pics when I get started putting this together.

[CheapScotsman]

I just purchased the Delta 50-760 and will also be trying to make a separator.
If I may ask, what's your source for the fiber drums. ?
What type of 4" hose are you getting ?

I'm very new at this, so there will be probably be a lot more questions.

Thanks

Our local craigslist has lots of fiberglass, metal and fiber drums from free to $30.

[jfin]

Phil - I hated to drag up this old thread, but I wanted the photo. Looking at the really nice side entry modification, does it bother you (or anyone else) that the air/chip flow will jam right into the crimps in the HVAC pipe? HVAC is my best bet, size and money-wise. My plan is one main duct run & a couple branches. But, all the fittings which are "flow through" with either a 30 or 45 degree branch will all cause the flow to go INTO the crimps instead of flowing THROUGH the crimp area (as the flow would go in a correctly done HVAC installation). Is this "jamming" a problem? If so, how can I overcome it?                  Thanx                        Jim Finnegan

[phil (admin)]

Looking at the really nice side entry modification, does it bother you (or anyone else) that the air/chip flow will jam right into the crimps in the HVAC pipe?

Not a HUGE deal.  You can always bang-out the crimps.  People do it from time to time.  I hear it is a PITA, but doable.

[bruegf]

I just finished a separator a couple weeks ago using a side inlet.   Used 5" snap-lock pipe and avoided using crimped ends facing into the air stream.   Only took a few hours to build, not really all that difficult if you're patient.   Efficiency has far exceeded my expectations - I only have a few cups of very fine dust in the DC bag after a 2-3 days of intermittent use.

You can easily avoid the crimps by cutting a foot or so off the uncrimped end of the pipe and using that for your inlet pipe.

http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=320.0

Fred

[jfin]

Thanks, both Phil and Fred! Fred - you "plumbed" your DC ducting with 5" HVAC pipe. I have the same DC, and am planning to "duct" my installation with the same piping.

In your May 9, 2010 thread, "New to DC - have a question", the photos suggest that the duct joint between the trash can pipe  and the upstream ductwork was done with a "tape" joint - true?

I believe Fred's input, but anything I can reasonably do to reduce the system SP loss is all in my favor. I'm considering cutting the crimps off, then joining sections by butting them together and "tying" them to each other with a sheet metal collar around the joint and pop rivets. I know its a lot of work (and I may abandon it once I try it!), but that's where my "head" is right now. Comments, please!

Again - THANKS!!!                         Jim         

[bruegf]

Jim

My pics don't show it but the crimped end of the main branch goes into the uncrimped pipe used for the separator inlet.  I used 5" snap lock for everything, right up to the point where I reduced to 4" flex hose to connect to the tool.   My shop is small and everything needs to move so I use either 4 or 5" flex hose for the last few feet.   I started laying the ducts at the farthest point from the DC and always pointed the crimped end in the direction of the air flow.   I then taped all joints using aluminum HVAC tape, including every joint in the elbows to prevent losses - there was a noticeable difference once all the joints were taped.   I use regular duct tape (not the aluminum tape) at the joint to the separator inlet and outlet because the aluminum tape is a bear to get off when I need to empty the separator.

All 90's were done using two adjustable elbows set to 45 degrees with a foot or so of straight duct between them to approximate long sweep elbows.   Be sure to change out the 5" flex hose from the blower to the ring to 5" snap-lock pipe - makes quite a difference. 

I had considered using butt joints as well, but decided that getting the pipe aligned well enough that there wouldn't be any edges for dust to catch and collect on, would be nearly impossible.  If you really want to minimize loss to that degree I suspect you would have to use spiral pipe and fittings and that would add a lot of cost.

Air flow is good enough that I accidentally sucked a 2" wire wheel off my drill press table (located at the very end of the main run) through approx 25' of pipe all the way to the inlet pipe to my separator, right after I finished taping everything up the first time.   Unfortunately I started taking pipe apart at the point where it went in, rather than at the DC end.

Fred