Stacked vac and can

[billw]

Finally got around to building a lid, after coming to the conclusion that the LV lid just wasn't doing an adequate job. As shop space is at a premium I stacked the vac above the can, with 2" PVC pipe connecting the lid to the vac.



Here's the lid. The inlet port is a 2" "street" elbow that press fits nicely into a 2-1/4" hole. The outlet port is a standard 2" elbow with a bit of pipe to extend below the lid per Phil's design.



And here's details of the connection to the vac.



This is the end that connects to the vac.



It works a treat! By my unscientific test works much better than the LV cyclone lid.

More and larger pix here:

http://billw.smugmug.com/gallery/6116486_jmn5N/1/412633806_WFhfS

And a few more details in my post at the Canadian Workworking Forum:

http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/showthread.php?p=190090#post190090

  -- Bill

[dbhost]

Finally got around to building a lid, after coming to the conclusion that the LV lid just wasn't doing an adequate job. As shop space is at a premium I stacked the vac above the can, with 2" PVC pipe connecting the lid to the vac.

That's a very nice looking cart. Looks pretty simple. Just 2x4s and plywood right? Is that just butt jointed? And is that stiff enough to keep from skewing?

[billw]

That's a very nice looking cart. Looks pretty simple. Just 2x4s and plywood right? Is that just butt jointed? And is that stiff enough to keep from skewing?

2x3's, actually. They're usually straighter! Yes, just butt joints, two screws into the end of each 2x3. The plywood bits are 24" square. I was concerned about skewing, but it's good enough. The vac is pretty light weight. If the cart needed stiffening I'd just screw a couple of small hardboard panels onto the sides, or maybe corner braces -- whatever works. It doesn't have to be pretty, as long as I can get the can out.

  -- Bill

[dbhost]

It would appear I have a project this weekend. Thanks for the idea!

[Bill_In_Alabama]

I finished my lid last week and built a stand to stack the system similar to the one built by billw.  I'm still using the flexible hose that came with my Rigid Shop vac between the vac and the separator.  I'd like to replace the 7' hose with something similar to the pics above. I probably could have built the stand about 6" shorter than I did, but since I put frame around the platforms, they may be strong enough to add a shelf or drawer for additional storage   I built the separator lid pretty close to the one described by Phil.  I haven't extended the center port below the lid yet, but it seems to be working well.  I made a few cuts on my TS and the dust had collect around the bottom edge of my 31 gal. garbage can and there was no detectable dust in the vac.  The center of the bottom of the garbage can was nearly free of dust.  That made me conclude that there was a cyclone type air movement set up below the baffle.  Has anyone compare the results with the center port extended to the results without the extension?

[phil (admin)]

Has anyone compare the results with the center port extended to the results without the extension?

Yes.   ;D

The difference in small, but significant.

By extending the outlet tube, we're able to pull the very cleanest air from the center of the cyclone action.

[dbhost]

I finished my lid last week and built a stand to stack the system similar to the one built by billw.  I'm still using the flexible hose that came with my Rigid Shop vac between the vac and the separator.  I'd like to replace the 7' hose with something similar to the pics above

Just my humble little opinion here, but the short radius 90 bill uses, looks like it would make for some pretty big CFM drops, which should be avoided with a Shop Vac based system, keep your hose and make the curve long and gentle... I like the idea of keeping things neat and tight in as well, but it just looks like there would be a functional impact is all...

. I probably could have built the stand about 6" shorter than I did, but since I put frame around the platforms, they may be strong enough to add a shelf or drawer for additional storage   I built the separator lid pretty close to the one described by Phil.  I haven't extended the center port below the lid yet, but it seems to be working well.  I made a few cuts on my TS and the dust had collect around the bottom edge of my 31 gal. garbage can and there was no detectable dust in the vac.  The center of the bottom of the garbage can was nearly free of dust.  That made me conclude that there was a cyclone type air movement set up below the baffle.  Has anyone compare the results with the center port extended to the results without the extension?

I had not tried without the center tube, but with the center tube, it's pretty amazing. I use a 20 gallon trash can, and with a freshly emptied vac, and a freshly cleaned filter, I vacuumed up probably 10 gallons of various material from shop dust to gunk behind the workbench and the shop floor, and I did get a little dusting on the filter, and just a light dusting on the inside plastics of the vac tub...

I have since vacuumed out a VERY full firebox (cold) from my New Braunfels Smoker Bandera Smoker (The big competition size smoker), twice. (Did some serious BBQ last weekend). The filter is now dust coated, but there was VERY little ash in the vac intself, 99% ish stayed in the trash can...

I can tell you for sure, that I have some modifications to do to my tools to improve dust collection. The open bottom on my table saw makes dust collection a joke. I seem to get the fines, but the chunky bits just blow by the dust hood.  And outside of the router table, I am not sure how to to dust collection from the router...

I spent the weekend on other shop projects, and LOML projects involving a hot glue gun and floral stuff.

[bennybmn]

What kind of table saw? I have a delta contractor style, and I just put a piece of 1/4 ply across the bottom.  Dust port on the back on another piece of 1/4 with a cutout for the belt and motor mount.  There's a LOT of dust inside the "cabinet" still, but not in the air!! I can send pics if you want.  Also made a router table recently. Let us know whacha got, maybe we can help rig it up better.

[dbhost]

Current, and problematic TS is a Ryobi BTS21, Have a Ryobi BT3100 coming, and I know how to close those off for better DC... The fine folks at BT3Central clued me in..

[billw]

Just my humble little opinion here, but the short radius 90 bill uses, looks like it would make for some pretty big CFM drops, which should be avoided with a Shop Vac based system, keep your hose and make the curve long and gentle... I like the idea of keeping things neat and tight in as well, but it just looks like there would be a functional impact is all...

Yeah, I thought of that. It's hard to say without testing with an anemometer what works better. The long hose with the ribbing is likely to induce turbulence (?) in the hose. The shorter pipe has sharper bends. Also the 1 1/2" joiner creates a bottleneck right at the inlet to the vac. I just got tired of that long hose flapping around and getting in the way!

I may try a second version of the outlet tube using 45 degree elbows, and instead of a joiner to connect to the vac, try to sand/file down the 2" PVC to fit.

For now, though, it works sooo much better than the LV cyclone lid I think I'll leave it alone for a while and work on some "real" shop projects.

  -- Bill

[CheapScotsman]

Why not rotate the shop vac 90 degrees so that the outlet from the baffle separator goes straight into the inlet for the shop vac ... would just need to build a cradle to hold the shopvac on its side.

[billw]

Why not rotate the shop vac 90 degrees so that the outlet from the baffle separator goes straight into the inlet for the shop vac ... would just need to build a cradle to hold the shopvac on its side.

Brilliant! That's thinking outside the box, for sure. I'll keep that in mind for version 2 of my lid.

The only (small) problem is that it makes emptying the trash a bit harder - you have to take the vac off the top shelf.

  -- Bill

[CheapScotsman]

True but you would eliminate two sharp 90s and you should see a good increase in CFM/suction.

[dbhost]

Just my humble little opinion here, but the short radius 90 bill uses, looks like it would make for some pretty big CFM drops, which should be avoided with a Shop Vac based system, keep your hose and make the curve long and gentle... I like the idea of keeping things neat and tight in as well, but it just looks like there would be a functional impact is all...

Yeah, I thought of that. It's hard to say without testing with an anemometer what works better. The long hose with the ribbing is likely to induce turbulence (?) in the hose. The shorter pipe has sharper bends. Also the 1 1/2" joiner creates a bottleneck right at the inlet to the vac. I just got tired of that long hose flapping around and getting in the way!

I may try a second version of the outlet tube using 45 degree elbows, and instead of a joiner to connect to the vac, try to sand/file down the 2" PVC to fit.

For now, though, it works sooo much better than the LV cyclone lid I think I'll leave it alone for a while and work on some "real" shop projects.

  -- Bill

You've got a great point about the ribbed hose inducing CFM drag... Hadn't thought of that...

I'm not sure mounting the vac sideways would work all that well. Wouldn't the check ball close it off?

[CheapScotsman]

I'm not sure mounting the vac sideways would work all that well. Wouldn't the check ball close it off?

The powerhead on my Ridgid shopvac can be detached as a blower so it doesn't have a check valve .... but even if it did ... given that there isn't any back pressure against the valve, the blower should / might be able to push the ball out of the way?

In the end, just an idea and something for the OP and others to test first.