Shape of the barrel?

[Yamster]

Hello,

Are there any restrictions on the shape of the barrel?  Well, that sounds like a little odd question as any barrel is supposed to be in a shape of a barrel.  What I meant by the barrel is the bottom container where the dust and debris are collected.

I have purchased a heavy duty 32 gallon plastic trash can from Menards.  I initially planned on using the lid that came with the trash can - make a couple of holes for inlet and outlet pipes and attach a hardboard baffle under it.  I thought that would be the minimalistic approach and I wasn't 100% sure if that flimsy plastic lid would be strong enough, but if not I could just enforce it a little with some hardboard or plywood backing.

Only after I open the lid and start measuring the diameter inside, I have realized there are some small ridges and a couple of big bumps inside, which will obviously complicate the process (since I would have to cut the baffle around those bumps) and quite possibly impact the efficiency because they will also get in the way of air circulation.

Then I saw some so called "top hat" designs, and then decided that's the way to go.

I have been reading postings here and some other woodworking forums, seen some pictures of really nicely made top hat style lid.  What an inspiration.

Anyhow, just today it suddenly hit me.  Here I am assuming that this top hat lid design will nullify the negative impact of unsmooth surface and bumps in the container below.  Is my assumption correct?  If it is, does it mean the shape of the bottom container doesn't really matter?  In other words, can the bottom dust collector be of any shape, as long as I keep the inside of the top hat smooth and round (since that's where the cyclone will be)?

If yes...  wow.. this really opens up the design choice.  For instance, I can make a cabinet style cyclone separator with the bottom dust container being a drawer (rectangular shape). If the air leak is an issue, maybe I can put a door (to the drawer front) and seal the openings around it.  This way, emptying out the dust container will be a breeze.  Also, now that I can make this cyclone separator unit as strong and sturdy as I want (since it's a cabinet, not a plastic trash can with heavy top) and the separator lid can remain stationary, I can mount the impella unit directly on top of the separator lid.

This is a pretty exciting idea.. but I am not 100% sure if it will really work...  Maybe someone else already has tried it?  Or at least does anyone know if the bottom dust container has to be cylinderical shape for top hat style lid design or not?

Thank you!

[galerdude]

   I've read many posts on here where I was led to believe that the container that the debris goes into once it leaves the P. Thien separator, is some what insignificant. The two main prerequisites being, sealable and ease of emptying. Like I said, that's how I understood the comments. I chose to use a round plastic barrel which worked for my needs. A link to my build, http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=503.0 ,  that works super. I tried to design and build mine according to what had been done, before me, successfully; which I am most thankful for those sharing their innovations. I think as long as you follow Phil's basic design criteria and add whatever innovations that suit your needs, you'll have a successful build. The fact that Phil Thien's separator works cannot be disputed, plain and simple. Just go for it, you'll be amazed!

Thanks,
Gale

[CBy]

Hello.

My experience with barrel shape: it is - as Gale already said - not that significant.

I have build a Thien Separator on top of a Systainer 5. These boxes are made by Tanos and used often as tool case. The handle was removed and a rectangle hole cut in the lid. The box was seald with thick CA (a bit tricky) and the Thien Separator in top hat design can be fixed with the fasteners of the systainer in raised position (originally meant to pile the Systainers).

Festo, Mafell and Rokamat are manufacturing vaccuum cleaners which accept Systainers on their top. That gives a nice and compact extraction system.

I determined the efficiency by weighing Systainer plus Separator and the shop vac separately before and after doing concrete grinding with a light diamond disc grinder.

This overall performance doesn't say something about the degree of separating fines but it gives an idea.

I got 433,8g dust caught by the separator and 37,6g in the vac. That is about 92% caught by the Thien separator. That speaks for itself.

And this is time to congratulate Phil for his great idea. Solving a complex problem in a simple way - that is the real clue!