5", Rectangular Inlet, Bellmouth Outlet with Air Straightener, Top Hat Separator

[DominicG]

ORBlackFZ1,
Thanks for the recommendations! I really appreciate them. That link to the 5" dia flex hose from Grizzly is just what I was looking for.  :)

Once I start building my separator I will order that hose so it'll be here in time.

[RonS]

Here are some another sites that carry Woodworking dust collection supplies. I purchased all my 5" metal ducting and flex hose
from these companies. Fast delivery, good selection and price.

Winn Engineering:
http://wynnenv.com/products-page/woodworking_hose/

Kencraft
http://www.kencraftcompany.com/Dustindex.htm

[mbeam]

Retired2,
I have been trying to read as many posts on this forum as I can, however, being new to both this forum and this technology, I am having a hard time finding a plan that I can use to build from.  I am not trying to do anything out of the ordinary.  I have a Harbor Freight 2hp dust collector and I want to put a separator on it.  I have seen many verbal descriptions of how to build one, but I am a visual learner.  Do you know of any posts or have any knowledge of a "set of plans" that may be avialable to build one of these separators that will either mount on top of a steel trash can or mount inside same?

[BernardNaish]

Yes this site is certainly a long and involved read. Your best bet is to build a top hat along the lines of retired2's design. See here:

http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=563.msg3024#msg3024

It is quite long but gives all you need to know. Hope it goes well.

[DominicG]

Here are some another sites that carry Woodworking dust collection supplies. I purchased all my 5" metal ducting and flex hose from these companies. Fast delivery, good selection and price.

Winn Engineering:
http://wynnenv.com/products-page/woodworking_hose/

Kencraft
http://www.kencraftcompany.com/Dustindex.htm

Yup! I ordered my 5" and 6" flex hose from KenCraft yesterday. I also ordered a 5 x 5 x 5 Wye. They were a good bit more economical than Oneida or Grizzly

[pitbull]

@mbeam

Same concept, different build method.... if you are a visual learner then you are going to be very happy when you click the link. You can use that info to build any design, like RetVet or your own.

Blow off the dust when you go its been buried for a few years.....
http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=429.msg2187#msg2187


-Jason

[ctadds]

Question about Air Straightener:

Kudos to Phil, Retired2 and everyone else on this post.  Fantastic!

Somewhere on this site I found a link for a paper that showed a cross section for a air straightener that had 6 or 8 vanes that each went from the side of the pipe to about half way toward the center point of the pipe--Saw it last night, but now I can't find it.  Can anyone point me to it?

Thanks

[retired2]

Question about Air Straightener:

Kudos to Phil, Retired2 and everyone else on this post.  Fantastic!

Somewhere on this site I found a link for a paper that showed a cross section for a air straightener that had 6 or 8 vanes that each went from the side of the pipe to about half way toward the center point of the pipe--Saw it last night, but now I can't find it.  Can anyone point me to it?

Thanks

Sorry, I only have a vague recollection of a white paper on this subject, but I can't point you to it quickly.  I guessing it was in the last 18 months.

After a quick search, I found this thread.  Maybe it is what you are looking for:
http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=1048.msg5635#msg5635

[ctadds]

Retired2, I'm looking for a different one, it showed a schematic for an air straightener that had 6 or 8 straight fins equally spaced that only each extended in about half of the radius leaving the center of the tube clear.

I'm contemplating shaping a bell out of pvc pipe and keeping it long enough to accomodate thin slots that would house the fins which would be secured to the exterior surface of the pipe in order to keep the interior as smooth as possible.

It seems to me that it would be a relatively easy and inexpensive build.  Any thoughts?

Thanks, Craig.

[spes]

Hello all, first post.
  I've been lurking for awhile, and want to start a cyclone. I just ordered a HF 2hp dc. I plan on getting a Wynn filter after making a top hat. I like the top hat design because I think it looks cool to see the cyclonic action. And I seem to have landed here at "retired2's" version.
That said, my brain is about to explode with information overload!
I'm sure most if not all of my questions have been asked, but it's easier to ask again than search thru the mountain of info on this website.
ok, please bear with me,
1)I can somewhat understand the concept of the importance of widths, measurements and lengths inside the cyclone,, but why is it better for the bottom piece to be thin? Why not 1/2" and bevel the edge?
2) The conversation on  Elliptical Bell Mouth Templates really makes me want to do something else, :-\

Has anyone made any kind of a list/cheat sheet with all the do's and don'ts involved in building a cyclone?
I understand how people can get obsessed with wanting to make the next one better,, but I just want to cut down on some dust I'm eating.

Thanks all.
Mike

[BernardNaish]

You are in the right place. Build a top hat as described at the top of this thread. Most people seem to use the Brute trash can. Use polycarbon sheet instead of acrylic (Perspex). You can leave out the elliptical bell mouth to the exit pipe and add it later if you want.

I do not know why the thin baffle works best or if a bevel on the edge of thicker material will work. It is so easy to make it from 1/4" tempered hardboard that most just make it that way. It probably does not need much support but you might as well add it while you are at it.

Please ask if you have more question and cannot find them easily - though the search fuction usually brings up the asnswer. Let us know how you get on. Probably best to start a new thread if you do - as this one is getting too long.

[woodworker100]

Question about Air Straightener:

Kudos to Phil, Retired2 and everyone else on this post.  Fantastic!

Somewhere on this site I found a link for a paper that showed a cross section for a air straightener that had 6 or 8 vanes that each went from the side of the pipe to about half way toward the center point of the pipe--Saw it last night, but now I can't find it.  Can anyone point me to it?

Thanks

Is this what you wer looking for?

http://www.vortab.com/pdfs/Principles%20of%20Operation.pdf

Fred

[jnug]

So I am gathering all the materials I will need for the bellmouth Thien Top Hat. Just a couple things I am trying to get straight in my head:
1. I am thinking that 0.50" thick MDF would be effective while being a bit less material to deal with. MDF can be messy. I want to use it but at a thickness that while sufficient maybe does not involve cutting away so much material. Do we generally think 0.50" is sufficient as a thickness?
2 I know the rigidity of the hardboard for the baffle has been an issue that has been discussed. Would it make sense to go thicker than 0.25" as a means of improving the rigidity? I know people have mentioned that thinner is better for the baffle but maybe 0.25" is just too thin. That said, I guess regardless of the thickness of the hardboard baffle, offering it more support at the edge of the slot makes sense. What do we think about some dimension thicker than 0.25" for the hardboard baffle?
3. I am really struggling with where to find the makings of the inlet pipe. From the drawings it looks like we need something tapered and either round or rectangular at the top hat end to fit up to the opening in the top hat itself. Any help with that as I just cannot find anything fabricated that way other than a few reducers, none of them dimensionally adequate to the task. I guess going round at both ends of the inlet pipe is an option. It does not appear to be a good one though and you are still left trying to get something with a taper I think. So what are people using for an inlet pipe? I really don't want to get stuck fabricating one if possible as the junction between pipe and top hat is going to be critical.
4. finally, any support for incorporating a neutral vane at the inlet?

Completely understand if folks think the last question is off the wall. I am really just asking so that if it is something worth considering I can think about the material I would need for it.

[retired2]

So I am gathering all the materials I will need for the bellmouth Thien Top Hat. Just a couple things I am trying to get straight in my head:
1. I am thinking that 0.50" thick MDF would be effective while being a bit less material to deal with. MDF can be messy. I want to use it but at a thickness that while sufficient maybe does not involve cutting away so much material. Do we generally think 0.50" is sufficient as a thickness?
2 I know the rigidity of the hardboard for the baffle has been an issue that has been discussed. Would it make sense to go thicker than 0.25" as a means of improving the rigidity? I know people have mentioned that thinner is better for the baffle but maybe 0.25" is just too thin. That said, I guess regardless of the thickness of the hardboard baffle, offering it more support at the edge of the slot makes sense. What do we think about some dimension thicker than 0.25" for the hardboard baffle?
3. I am really struggling with where to find the makings of the inlet pipe. From the drawings it looks like we need something tapered and either round or rectangular at the top hat end to fit up to the opening in the top hat itself. Any help with that as I just cannot find anything fabricated that way other than a few reducers, none of them dimensionally adequate to the task. I guess going round at both ends of the inlet pipe is an option. It does not appear to be a good one though and you are still left trying to get something with a taper I think. So what are people using for an inlet pipe? I really don't want to get stuck fabricating one if possible as the junction between pipe and top hat is going to be critical.
4. finally, any support for incorporating a neutral vane at the inlet?

Completely understand if folks think the last question is off the wall. I am really just asking so that if it is something worth considering I can think about the material I would need for it.

1) I think there have been several builds done with 1/2" plywood and 1/2" MDF, so it should be fine.

2) I would stay with the 1/4" baffle.  What several people have done is to bring a support island out from the area under the baffle where there is no slot.  But I would still make sure that support is set wll back from the drop slot, and especially at the end of the slot.

3) I have seen on this forum several "solutions" where commercial fittings have been pounded into shape, or wood transitions have been fabricated.  None of them make an optimal transition, but all are probably better than simply cutting off a round entry pipe.  I don't have a link to any of the solutions and unfortunately, it is a bit like finding a needle in a hay stack. 

4) I'm not sure if a neutral vane would be beneficial or not.  I have a long radius ell just before my transition, and I just figured the ell and transition piece are reshaping the air flow so much that a vane might just add more line loss.

[jnug]

I wondered if what I was seeing in some of the graphics was actually support for the 0.25" hardboard baffle. Even cut back away from the slot I suspect that should really help support it.

Sounds like I will just have to learn to be a metal pounder. Although, I have a couple friends with a body shop. No way I can get them to do anything for me this time of year in New England! The place is choked with winter crash business. But maybe in a month or so if I am having trouble I might be able to get them to pound something out for me.