Another baffle / HF DC upgrade build about to start.

[dbhost]

I am trying to improve airflow in my DC and condense my workshop as I am going to move from my garage workshop that is 18x20, and into a shed workshop that is 12x16, I need to downsize!

My current rig is an older HF 2HP DC with a Wynn 35A, and I go out of the DC via a 5" hose to a 55 gallon blue poly drum separator with a side inlet.

I want to remove the poly drum.

So plan at this point...

#1. Upgrade the pitiful stock HF impeller with a Wen impeller. Already on order.
#2. Build separator for mounting in the ring of the DC.
#3. Move my 5" connection direct to the DC bypassing the drum entirely.

This begs the one BIG question. How do I mount both the separator, AND the 35A filter?

I am assuming the 35a more or less has the one method of the turnbuckles to mount, so that leaves how to mount the separator.

So if you have done this, could I bother you to chime in and post some ideas for mounting? I am thinking about screws through the ring into the separator, and one or two threaded bars to stand off the "loose end"

[dbhost]

So I am going to try to at least touch base daily, or every other day until this is done. Progress for today is...

Not a dang thing. Been working my paid job, and a little bit under the weather. I ended up with shingles, and I thought it was mostly done, today has reminded me it still f*#(ing hurts...

So first things first...

I have the 30 gallon steel trash can vac separator on a shelf, needs to go. Going to bring that in the house as I am about to hit a bunch of drywall with my RO sander...

Pull the shelf down, set aside.

Pull the 55 gallon drum, disconnect. I am gonna cut my baffle in the driveway anyway...

Once the existing separators are moved, I can then get to the DC... But I have more wiggling to do.

Pull the small air compressor from under the DC, then rotate the DC and stand 90 degrees so I can...

Roll mechanics tool box to the side so I can unplug the DC... Yeah, there is that little detail.

Still waiting for Wen impeller to ship.

Pull DC apart, and scuff with fairly high grit sandpaper.

wipe down with alcohol wipes.

Tape off parts that don't need paint, and shouldn't be removed,

Lay down cardboard surface as painting backer.

Spray with Rigid / Wen orange. Not trying to copy, I just LOVE bright orange in the shop. The HF cheap Chinese green is disgusting.

Let it cure.

Hopefully by then new impeller should be in.

Swap in new impeller.

Assemble except separator ring.

Cut new separator ring.

Futz with angles and figure out risers.

Cut risers.

Mount risers, cartridge filter, and then baffle.

Finally put on catch bag.

Attach 5" to dual 4" adapter.

Test. I have a big ol pile of various dust and shavings that would work great for test media.

Assuming test successful reposition everything, leaving old separator out.

Take some pretty pics and post here.

So that's it. Wish me luck!

[dbhost]

So update for today:

Wen impeller arrived today. The entire job of swapping the HF impeller to the Wen unit took all of 30 minutes, so bonus points for being easy. This also assumes you know how to use a 3 jaw puller.

The new impeller does BARELY fit into the housing though. I mean tight fit city!

The difference in airflow is noticeable, and quite large, not a surprise. The OE impeller is tiny by comparison. Not sure what Harbor Freight was thinking by using the impeller they did.

Next step is to remove / disassemble the drum separator, and verify, although I doubt it, but verify if it will fit the separator ring. Worth checking to save some labor but like I said, seriously doubt it...

While I am at it, planning on using an angle guage to get the angle for the dowels.

Anxious to get this all done as this will free up a mess of space that I badly need.

[dbhost]

I'm in a quandry at this point. The anemometer I got from Amazon won't read high enough to read the air speed at the DC inlet.  Most likely send this back and order one with a higher read capacity...

[dbhost]

I am going to have to ask Phil for forgiveness here, at least for the time being. The airflow impact of my 55 gallon drum separator really got my attention, so at least for now, I am leaving the baffle out, and going instead with a neutral vane.

So far the airflow is amazingly better, but no idea about the separation.

I fail to recall the members HF DC that had the Neutral Vane here AND a Thien separator IN the DC allowing it to drop and not scrub from the lower bag, I would assume the Neutral vane does nothing about preventing scrubbing... But if I blow down the filter and drop the bag before it gets overly filled up I should be golden...

But the project panel purchased for the baffle is here, and will remain at the ready should the need arise / the vane not work as I am hoping...

[dbhost]

Updated info here.

After further digging, and putting a bit of trust into Phil on the matter, although I wish that he could link the tests / articles but  apparently Fine Woodworking did a test of the Thien Baffle IN the ring vs. external, and apparently the in ring configuration produced reportedly negligible impact to airflow into and through the DC, which is what I am aiming for. So I am thinking about going for the separator in the ring and calling it good...

[Schreck]

I am trying to improve airflow in my DC and condense my workshop as I am going to move from my garage workshop that is 18x20, and into a shed workshop that is 12x16, I need to downsize!

My current rig is an older HF 2HP DC with a Wynn 35A, and I go out of the DC via a 5" hose to a 55 gallon blue poly drum separator with a side inlet.

I want to remove the poly drum.

So plan at this point...

#1. Upgrade the pitiful stock HF impeller with a Wen impeller. Already on order.
#2. Build separator for mounting in the ring of the DC.
#3. Move my 5" connection direct to the DC bypassing the drum entirely.

This begs the one BIG question. How do I mount both the separator, AND the 35A filter?

I am assuming the 35a more or less has the one method of the turnbuckles to mount, so that leaves how to mount the separator.

So if you have done this, could I bother you to chime in and post some ideas for mounting? I am thinking about screws through the ring into the separator, and one or two threaded bars to stand off the "loose end"

I couldn't find a photo of your old setup, but 55 gallons is pretty big all by itself, so getting rid of that will be a good start.
I have been using a baffle inside the ring of my single stage dust collector for 8 - 9 years now.  I always intended to make a tophat but never got around to it.  I collect sawdust with a plastic bag under the ring.

I made some fairly accurate measurements of my baffle-in-ring setup back in 2013 or so that you may find helpful:
http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=1109.msg6089#msg6089
My ring had a spiral ramp, which I removed, so I installed a plywood ceiling and chimney.  The net effect was I built a top hat using the ring.
The HF ring has a collar above the inlet, so you don't need a ceiling.

The Wynn filter website has photos of different dust collector installations that you may find helpful as well.

[dbhost]

Reviewing your numbers, and the hit you took on airflow, is not all that reassuring. Unfortunately my anemometer doesn't read fast enough air speed to be useful for anything at the impeller on the DC.  I do know that a 30% drop after 10' of 5" ducting however is substantial enough to give me pause.

HOWEVER, I looked at how yours was set up, and yes the, ceiling or whatever you called it, with the 6 or 8" neck would likely serve to provide a restriction.

I know the neutral vane puts everything in the ring under the cone, and forces it to spin around the outside of the ring, kind of a weird sound with shavings actually, I know the opening in the ring is something like 12", maybe a little less,..

I do expect SOME restriction due to the baffle as it is a baffle after all, but I am not expecting to see a LOT of restriction...

I am unsure about that Penn State unit you measured against though, does it lack any sort of cone, or inside anything in the ring? That would explain a LOT of the restriction right there...

I might just have to soucre up 10' of 5" and see if I can't measure pre and post baffle airflow with the cone. I REALY want to know...

[Schreck]

I am unsure about that Penn State unit you measured against though, does it lack any sort of cone, or inside anything in the ring?

It has no cone.  It came with a ramp that pushed incoming air downwards, but I removed it when the baffle was installed.  The chimney was added because there was no cone.  Note the increase in airflow when the chimney diameter increased from 6 to 8 inches.  A 12 in. chimney would be less restrictive.

I might just have to soucre up 10' of 5" and see if I can't measure pre and post baffle airflow with the cone. I REALY want to know...

I don't think a measurement made at the impeller intake is meaningful since that is not how the unit will be used.  If you are using 4" flex hose to your tools, the tool end of the hose is where you should measure the airflow.  If you attach the 4 in. hose to a reducer (increaser) with perhaps a short length of 6" duct, the airflow will remain the same but the velocity will drop, perhaps low enough that you can measure it with your instrument.  The instrument will partially block the duct end, so the measurement won't be very accurate but it will allow you to compare different measurements as you change your system. 
Skip the 10' of 5" duct because your measurements can't be compared to those I made with a pitot tube.

Last photo shows 1.5 HP Penn State DC at left and the HF DC at right with the stock impeller.  After testing the airflow, I returned the HF unit.  The center DC is the 2 HP Grizzly unit I used for my tests last year http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=1426.0

[dbhost]

Well, FWIW, the baffle that I took out of the 55 gallon separator can no longer work there. I cut it down to fit the ring on the HF DC.

Looking at the inside of the PSI unit you attached pics of it looks like it has / had some sort of spiral ramp (?) instead of a cone below the filter. Looks like you cut it out in favor of the wooden ceiling / tube arrangement.

MY intended LONG TERM application is going to be a 5' main with drops to my exisitng 4" blast gates instead of splitting to 2 4" mains. I am thinking about using a 5" blast gate to block off the run of the main that goes to the end of the shop, OR the run that goes overhead so I can basically reduce the volume being pulled against.

The mounting holes for the baffle need to be figured out. Pretty sure I can't use the ones I had originally in the drum baffle as they are too close together. Planning on filling the holes with putty and sanding smooth. Attachment will be 1/4 - 20 threaded rod, washers, and nuts / nylock nuts arrangement. Need to figure out how to orient the baffle with the neutral vane. I am going to assume the start of the full width is just before the opening of the neutral vane where it dumps so that the air / dust rides along the wide part enough before it drops in to the drop slot.

Also, drop slot was made 1.5" wide. should it be wider since this is in a dust collector arrangement and not a shop vac?