Connecting tophat to drum

[RobHannon]

So I am probably %80 through my build and finding some things I would do very different were I to start over again, the biggest being not use MDF while lacking a dust collector. One of my design features/flaws have made it so my tophat and impeller are rigidly fixed to each other and suspended from a steel rack. This has given me a new problem, the weight of the tophat cant be used to seal it to the collection drum. I have thought about some sort of clips that would hold the drum tight to it and suspended off the ground, but I am worried about the weight of a full 55 gallon drum being unsupported. I also have considered some sort of lift, but all my ideas for a lift mechanism are overly complicated. My latest idea is to make some sort of rubber chute that could permanently attach to the tophat and be slid over the drum and clamped tight with a band clamp.

Anyone tried this before or have any better ideas for me?

[alan m]

I haven't tried this yet but its on my to do list. I'm planning to make a cone that is attached to the bottom of my double height separator.
my plan is to make a ring out of a 4" strip of sheet metal  so that there will be  the same diameter  section below the baffle plate. that might help  , I'm not sure but I suspect a cone there would make it a small bit harder for the chips to fall down

I'm planning on using some 8" flex hose to fill the  drum that will be on the ground

[RobHannon]

I'd have to greatly reduce the height of my collection drum to funnel down small enough to use a short section of flex hose. I have seen setups like you are describing and if I had the vertical space it would be a great solution for me.

[alan m]

what diameter is your separator and drum.

you can get flex hose in large diameters. I'm looking to get it in 350mm diameter but its pricy

[RobHannon]

The drum OD is approximately 23". The bottom of the separator is slightly larger than that currently, but I have some ability to modify that if needed. I have not found anything flexible in that size range with the exception of renovation trash chutes, but I don't know how airtight those would be and they are sold in very long lengths.

My thinking is that I can make a short flexible rubber chute out of vinyl showerpan liner. The adhesive for that works similarly to how PVC pipe is glued so it it a strong bond, but I have no idea how that would behave over time with constant changes in air pressure pulling and releasing on it.

[RobHannon]

Let me put up a picture of what I have.  The impeller and chamber are already mounted. The baffle plate has a slight funnell at the bottom to make it fit down to a 55 gallon drum (I oopsed on a meansurment and made the chamber larger than intended). Everything is MDF and weighs much more than I anticipated.

[bbain]

I made a simple cam style lift with some lag bolts through the bottom of my support frame, and 2 2x4's with rounded over edges under a platform.  rotate the 2x's to the horizontal position to remove the bin.  rotate them to the vertical position to lift the bin enough to push it against the foam seal on the bottom of the tophat.  for a heavy 55 gal drum you might want to put handles on the 2x4 to make it a bit easier to rotate.

You don't need much travel to disengage the drum from the seals to drag it out.

[RobHannon]

That could work. You don't happen to have a picture of what you did do you?

[bbain]

Here you go, first one is bucket sealed onto tophat. Second one is with the cams rotated so it drops.  You can adjust how far up it goes by changing the thickness of the platform.  There is a groove on the bottom of my tophat that the rim of the bucket fits into for a good seal.

[TX_Lenador]

Here is the lift mechanism I used for my setup. The overall setup is similar to yours in that the blower is suspended above the top hat. You can adjust the size and amount of lift fairly easily. It should lift a 55 gallon drum easily. You may need to use a fine thread rod to improve the lift power. I use this to lift a 30 gallon trash can and it does so easily and creates enough holding pressure to seal the can to the bottom of the top hat.

Any questions, let me know.

[dabullseye]

i use an old opel car jack, some black pipe and flange fittings on each end and a piece of plywood for a platform. i have a plywood box around the jack so that when its lowered platform sits on box. platform is guided by the 4 black pipes and when its time to empty the drum it just slides off the platform and when i put it back there are is a half round shaped stop on platform to register the can in place then i crank the jack with my cordless. these are old pictures since then i have gone to the transparent trash can.
http://www.webstaurantstore.com/continental-3200cl-32-gallon-clear-huskee-trash-can/6902632CL.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping&gclid=Cj0KEQiA1NWnBRDchObfnYrbo78BEiQA-2jqBZzOkDUiVqd1-qWmeu9OcRuNqecreK_zhB1y-FZrV4waAm758P8HAQ

[RobHannon]

My current drum would not give me room for that setup, but if I were to switch to a can like you linked I think it would. How fast does the 32gal can fill up for you?

[TX_Lenador]

I am using a 32 gallon trash can and how fast it fills will depend on what you are doing. Table saw work not so fast but other tasks creating larger chips fills a bit faster. I am able to go quite awhile without having to empty the can. I typically try to empty it when it is half full simply because it is easier to handle. Large can full of saw dust can get a bit on the heavy side more cumbersome to empty into a trash bag. You noted that you were limited on space which is the same issue I had. The mechanism I created takes a bit more to build but it fits within 3-1/2" so is fairly compact. A socket adapter on the cordless driver makes it quick and easy to lower and raise. The locator ring on the base makes lining up the trash can really easy.

[ProfessorGT]

Wow, it's like you guys read my mind (TX_Lenador and dabullseye). ......... or I read yours because you both beat me to it.

Funny, I've been trolling the site for a while now and I was thinking about how I would design a system to raise and lower the can up to the tophat for easy emptying. I was on a path to something similar to what you designed TX, but yours is a lot simpler. I was thinking of using two screws (one on each side) connected by chains, and I got to a point where I stopped and thought Naaaaa, this is getting way out of hand.

Then, I happened to be down my basement doing something else, totally different, and there it was, a brandy-spankin new, never been used, scissor jack from a car I used to have. I thought, well, if it can lift a car, it can certainly handle raising and lowering a garbage pail! My mind went to work thinking about how I would execute my new, much simpler lift design.

I had some other domestic tasks to get done, and finally decided to take a brake and hop back on this forum to continue my research. The very first thread I looked at was this one and  ............... BANG! Here it is! You guys are awesome!

I originally built my Thien baffle for my HF DC about 10 years ago, give or take, and this is where I came at that time to learn about it. I ditched the bag filter, added a Wynn filter and a Thien baffle to the underside of the sheet metal housing. It turned out great, but I knew that eventually what I wanted was a 2-stage system!

Well, after having gone through some job layoffs and having to relocate to another state for work, I got my DC set-up going again so I could do some pen making to relieve the stress. After a while, I came back here because I realized I needed to plan out my two-stage system using a Thien Tophat separator. With pen making, especially because you are working with small parts, more than once the dust collector has gobbled up something I didn't intend for it to ingest. Unfortunately, because I don't have a 2-stage set-up yet, the impeller destroyed the item making me angry!

After having spent many hours going through various threads here (and I'm still at it) , I have once again found that the brain trust that lies within this forum has answered just about every question I have come up with. You guys, retired2, and a few others have shared an awful lot of valuable data, insights and your own builds, and this has been extremely informing and valuable to me.  THANK YOU ALL!

While it will be quite some time before I embark on my 2-stage project, due to time constraints, physical space, and the fact that it will just be another item I will have to move, when I move AGAIN, I promise to share my experiences and my final interpretation of how I go about building such a system.

This, a Gatton CNC, and a 30s Vintage Hot Rod build are definitely in my future, I just have to be patient, and wait until I relocate down south and get my shop set up.

Thanks Again, I appreciate it VERY much!

GT