J. Phil Thien's Projects

Hi taking a chance folks are still replying to this one (looks like not since 2018) but what are thoughts on opening intake to 6" vs even 8" (I have upgraded impeller to bigger one btw). Noticeable diff or enough diff to do it or stick with 6" bc not enough diff or otherwise will overstress?

thanks for your thoughts

I'm in a quandry at this point. The anemometer I got from Amazon won't read high enough to read the air speed at the DC inlet.  Most likely send this back and order one with a higher read capacity...

Okay no answers readily found. So I went ahead and ordered an anemometer. I will take my own measurements and do the math.  Will make a video and post the results.

I am digging into this very question. External separators are known to cause CFM drop.  Your DC is outfitted with I believe a 5" inlet. I would be looking into an in the inlet ring separator, either a Thien baffle, or a Neutral Vane, if not both.

I know the Thien baffle does radically reduce the amount of fine dust that get to the filter and in turn cause the filter to cake up.

You will also benefit significantly by replacing the bag type filter with a cartridge filter. I believe Grizzly at least used to offer a nice .5 micron nano filter with a built in beater to help clean it out...

I've been using a Thien separator for years, literally well over a decade now. And only recently came across some few youtube tests / demos showing CFM drop using most notably top hat style Thien separators being more extreme compared to say the CFM drop going through a commercially built cyclone separator like a Super Dust Deputy, and ALL of the tests are on what I would call pre impeller installs.

I have seen nothing comparing to say Neutral Vanes.

Since the whole point of these builds and adds has been to improve / maintain CFM / dust collection. Has anyone been able to do actual airflow measurements when fitted with the various separator styles?

Don't get me wrong, I love the Thien separator as it is EXTREMELY effective at separation, and maintaining airflow over the long term. I am just wondering if it is the best option, and even if, are there things we can do, maybe easing corners with a router bit for example, to facilitate airflow without allowing excessive dust blowby.

Hello all!

I?ve been using a grizzly 1028z 1.5HP dust collector (11? propeller) with 4? flex running directly to the tools. I?m over the amount of dust escaping the bags into the air and the hassle of moving duct from tool to tool so I?ve been researching doing permanent ducts/gates and a separator.

My first thought was to buy a 6? SDD Xl and throw it on my 55g fiber bin (roughly 21? diameter). I quickly realized that I don?t have the ceiling height to accommodate this configuration. I would have to either go down to the 5? model or shrink my dust bin. I stumbled across this site in my quest for a lower profile solution.

My setup will be simple: DC & separator in the corner (directly behind/beside my TS side table) with a straight run of pipe running approx 14 feet along the wall. There will be 3 drops: cabinet saw, router table, planer. Table saw get the majority of the use in my shop so small/mid sized is the bulk of my dust.

I?ve noticed many have adopted to the top hat design over the original fittings on a flat lid. Does this offer marked improvement over the original concept? I can see benefits in having air go straight into the side, rather than using an elbow. The rectangle inlet flow also makes sense to me. Has anyone done A vs. B testing on these designs using a constant size of ducting?

On my simple layout/short duct runs, would 6? be advisable or should I just stick with 5??

For a original lid  design, has anyone tried a vertical deflection baffle (with a radius) installed between the inlet and the enter outlet to guide air and reduce bypass? It seems like a good idea, but is the additional resistance too counterproductive?

So update for today:

Wen impeller arrived today. The entire job of swapping the HF impeller to the Wen unit took all of 30 minutes, so bonus points for being easy. This also assumes you know how to use a 3 jaw puller.

The new impeller does BARELY fit into the housing though. I mean tight fit city!

The difference in airflow is noticeable, and quite large, not a surprise. The OE impeller is tiny by comparison. Not sure what Harbor Freight was thinking by using the impeller they did.

Next step is to remove / disassemble the drum separator, and verify, although I doubt it, but verify if it will fit the separator ring. Worth checking to save some labor but like I said, seriously doubt it...

While I am at it, planning on using an angle guage to get the angle for the dowels.

Anxious to get this all done as this will free up a mess of space that I badly need.

Quote from: WoodCzar on April 09, 2020, 03:12:27 PM
Yeah, with all this social distancing, I finally can dedicate some time to set up a small shop.

Right now, I plan on using Phil`s plans here: http://www.jpthien.com/cy.htm  Identical, with the 45 degree elbows top and bottom, but everything 4 inch. Only thing I don`t like about it is the inside of the garbage can is not smooth. Wonder if it is an issue in anyway?

Anyway, my duct runs are relatively short. I`m going to keep the HF rig, motor side to my wall, short flex run to the can separator, short flex to a 45 degree fitting connected to my main trunk mounted same height as the separator, which will be only 8 ft or so. Only two trunks off the main to connect a table saw, and a miter saw which will adapt to a band saw and a sander.

Not using the HF bag either. Going the extra mile for the Wynn filter.

I just hope I`m not doing too much trial and error.

Good luck. Post findings. .............. Peace

I know the topic is a bit on the old side, but wanted to answer your question. Assuming you are using one of those galvanized trash cans. They work well, Not sure why, but they do. I have my 2.5" separator based off of one of them.  Not saying one way or another, but I did a separate drum based separator and I am now working on one for the separator ring in the DC itself to save space and hopefully reduce / eliniate any restriction. Might be something worth looking into.

If you see my post on lumberjocks, but long story short. I hit a pretty severe rough patch. Coming back from it now...  Trying to get things going the right way again...

Quote from: dbhost on November 16, 2021, 11:55:40 AM
@Phil

Sorry I have been out so long. Life happened ya know...

I am so sorry to hear that some jacknut is stealing your generously shared idea.

I'm no lawyer or anything like that, nor did I spend the night in a Holiday In Express, but if there is anything I can do to help with this issue. please let me know.

Wow, nice to hear from you.

Nothing much to do I guess.  I don't know what this guys application status is, I do know several reached-out to the patent office to object.

Hope you're doing well.