J. Phil Thien's Projects

Updated info here.

After further digging, and putting a bit of trust into Phil on the matter, although I wish that he could link the tests / articles but  apparently Fine Woodworking did a test of the Thien Baffle IN the ring vs. external, and apparently the in ring configuration produced reportedly negligible impact to airflow into and through the DC, which is what I am aiming for. So I am thinking about going for the separator in the ring and calling it good...

Quote from: phil (admin) on May 03, 2014, 07:00:18 AM
The losses from a baffle INSIDE the DC's ring are substantially lower than those of a top-hat separator.  Fine Woodworking's test indicated they saw little initial loss from adding the baffle to a Jet dust collector.

It is probably substantially easier to add a baffle to your existing DC ring than building a top-hat, as well.

The only advantage to the top hat really is that it prevents larger chunks of wood or screws or whatever from hitting your blower wheel.  But the blower wheels inside single stage DC's are designed with this possibility in mind.

@phil

I am guessing you have been AFK for a bit. I sure could have used this reassurance...

I have the baffle taken out of my 55 gallon unit and have been straddling the precipice on whether to cut it down for my DCs ring, not sure who it was, but the member that had the Plumb Crazy HF DC with a neutral vane and a baffle had the idea, but I never saw test results.

My main goals here are...

#1. Keep my airflow high in order to insure dust, shavings, and chips keep moving to the collector.
#2. Keep the dust, shavings, and chips away from the filter as much as possible to prevent clogging.
#3. Reduce the shop footprint of the collector and any separator. If they consume the same space, that is ideal. Where my 55 gallon unit was now has my roller stands, and one of my shop stools.
#4. Oddly enough, I want a clear dust vessel that I can view at a glance. Clear plastic bags are good by me. And my city recycler will take sawdust in plastic bags. I think that stuff goes to the paper mill...

I am MORE than willing to put my 55 gallon drum separator back together and use it for this test. I need data though.

My issue is this. My anemometer will only measure up to 69mph. so at the inlet of my DC, I cannot actually measure airflow, I exceed maximum measureable speed.

I have seen more than a few tests showing a Thien baffe, notably the top hat installs, but I assume others are similar, reduce airflow by somewhere around 45%.

I am wondering if the same is true with a baffle in the separator ring of the dust collector itself (post motor).

I can build and install the separator, however I have no means of measuring it if the air speed exceeds 69mph, which I expect it will / should.

What I am wondering, is has anyone done a comparison from pre, to post in ring baffle install, OR is there anyone in Houston Metro on here, that is interested in this data, that has an anemometer that can read much higher wind speeds than my puny one can that would be willing ot loan it to me or work with me to get this data?

I'd REALLY rather not buy another anemometer for this one data point. And I am pretty sure I will be able to get wind speeds at my duct ports with my existing one so no issues there...

Just saw your post.  An 8? inlet would not be helpful for this blower.  The relationship between the impeller and the housing affects blower efficiency.  The distance between the impeller and the inlet would increase because there is a profile to the blades of the impeller. See pix in reply 6 above.

I'm setting up a 2x72 belt grinder to grind knives.   A lot of guys just put a 5 gallon bucket under the grinder for the sparks and dust to fly into.   I'd like to create some suction under the grinder and I'm concerned about the sparks.   I'm wondering if anyone has used this system in my application?   Maybe by incorporating water on the bottom of the collection pail?   

Here is a link ( http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=1054.msg5677#msg5677 ) to my setup which uses a Grizzly 1029z dust collector. There are a series of photos attached and the last one is the completed setup. I used the ring from the DC for the separator. It has been working well as I capture a large amount of fines in the trash can. I know some are getting by (which is inevitable) by what collects in the dust box below the filter when I back blow the filter. I don't know what effect the tapered ring in the DC ring has on the separation process but it don't think it is harming it in any way. At best it may be forcing more of the fines and larger items to the perimeter of the ring and into the drop slot.

All duct work out to the machines is 5" spiral wound pipe. At each machine there is a 5" blast gate and then reduces to 4" for connection to the machine. Further reduction is done from there for smaller ports. The only issue I have encountered when using a small port tool is I have to open another BG part way or else the trash can will collapse and result in loss of suction and in one cause dust started everywhere.

This link ( http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=1402.msg8446#msg8446 ) takes you to my post on the automation I have added, if interested.

I am going to have to ask Phil for forgiveness here, at least for the time being. The airflow impact of my 55 gallon drum separator really got my attention, so at least for now, I am leaving the baffle out, and going instead with a neutral vane.

So far the airflow is amazingly better, but no idea about the separation.

I fail to recall the members HF DC that had the Neutral Vane here AND a Thien separator IN the DC allowing it to drop and not scrub from the lower bag, I would assume the Neutral vane does nothing about preventing scrubbing... But if I blow down the filter and drop the bag before it gets overly filled up I should be golden...

But the project panel purchased for the baffle is here, and will remain at the ready should the need arise / the vane not work as I am hoping...

On that trash can separator. from the pics, it is hard to tell, but it looks like the inlet is too far into the 120 deg wide spot. It should dump just when the wide spot starts...

On the subject of HF DC mods. I too have the 2HP Central Machinery dust collector. Everyone knows the drill on these as far as bang for the buck goes. I have the Wynn 35a as well, but mine is the older Spun Bond that you could wash out with a garden hose and let dry... Never done that, always blown it down. I believe MERV 15 with 99.99% at .5 microns. Hopefully by now everyone has gotten the message, ditch the cloth bag, get a quality cartridge filter.

I was hunting for the apparently unobtainable Rikon impeller for years, when I stumbled upon folks starting to swap in Wen 3403 impellers. Part number 3403-22 Turbofan.

I have yet to upgrade my inlet as my ductwork is still 5" split to 2 4" lines, but I will be upgrading in the new year to 6" using a Hydrofarm AC6F 6" fan flange from Amazon. Needs some mount hole dimpling and drilling but aside from that, direct fit...  And it's green. Not a perfect match for my unit, but close enough.

Awesome data - makes my head hurt so still digesting. I have been asking this question around these parts and will ask you here - what are your thoughts on going to 8" intake?

Great work and thank you for sharing! Helps a lot folks out in their decisions. I wish you did a 5" to 6" before 8" on the intake so we can see if there is a big diff and on the flipside if the 6" is a better balance of stress, velocity etc or should just go straight to 8" Any thoughts?