J. Phil Thien's Projects

Huh! I never would have expected the values between the new Wynn filter, Seasoned bag and No filter/bag to be so close... or for that matter for the separator to cause so much of a hit in airflow.

Quote from: kayak on January 12, 2016, 08:23:45 AM
JeffQ, what thickness would you recommend for the PETG?

I think when I built my top hat I used something like an .080 or .100 thickness of the PETG. I was lucky enough to get what was pretty much an off-cut from one of the local plastics suppliers here for a great price. Anything around this thickness will allow easy forming around the plywood and top and bottom of the top hat, while still providing plenty of strength and vertical rigidity.

Vivak is one of the brand names for PETG, much like Plexiglas is a brand name for acrylic.

You might be thinking of PETG sheet goods, as it is in the polyester family. It is available in thin roll, or sheet from from the same plastics suppliers where one might buy acrylic and polycarb from. Property-wise it is between acrylic and polycarb... more flexible and shatter-resistant than acrylic, but better scratch-resistance than polycarb. In my book, just about the ideal material for the outer "skin" on a see-thru top hat design. If it has any disadvantage, it is that you can't run to your local hardware store or big box to pick it up... but a google or yellow pages search for "Plastics suppliers - sheet  goods", will get you a source.

Bullseye - I'm considering that, but past experience with a variety of jacks has them "drooping" after a short time and since my dc is in a seperate closet... I didn't want to risk running the dc for a period before I noticed the dust bomb I caused. Maybe l've just only used cheap leaky jacks before, or I'd need to check the dc closet frequently, right now I'm just happy if I remember to turn the dc on! Right now I'm using a large ratchet strap to pull the can up to the fixed top hat, and while it "works", it's kind of a pain.

Do you find your scissor jack holds it position well over time?

jgt1942 -  not to hi-jack this thread, but can you elaborate a little bit on your lazy susan "waste can raiser"?...  I'm particularly interested in a description of the threaded rod mechanism. I'm picturing a relatively small diameter threaded rod like a 1/2" all thread rod... but knowing optimally the concept would be best with a much wider heavy flange/pipe of 4-6" width for stability. I've guessing you used your threaded rod in conjunction with a plywood platform or two sandwiching the lazy susan ball-bearing plate.

Rudy - I'm about to build my second Thien baffle in a top hat design not far off of what I have seen you do in this post. I'm trying to squeeze as much as I can out of a relatively marginal Grizzly 2hp blower. It seems there is a worthwhile separation advantage in using the taller chamber as you have and using a round to rectangular transition at the intake to the separation chamber.

Since I have all of my main runs in 6" S&D PVC pipe, I am thinking of trying to heat form the round to rectangular transition right from the 6" S&D to allow a little smoother transition and easier matching to the main duct pipe... but maybe it won't be worth the time spent forming the transition. Your sheet metal round to rectangular transition certainly seemed to make that part of the fabrication pretty simple. Now that you have a little experience running your version of a Thien separator with all of your ducting in place - is there anything you would have done differently with your build?

Here's one neat trick shown on youtube for a DIY PVC version... I think if you look and use the right search terms (aeroport), you can find others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzdnlBkG2mI

Guys, take every thought that follows to be purely speculation, and not in any way tried and true. I have gathered all of the necessary materials to make my own top hat style separator from a Grizzly 2 hp 1029, but have yet to begin the build. So far I have the Wynn nano cartridge filter, a strip of .093 PETG plastic for the top hat (same mat'l ClearVue uses for their cyclones) and the scrap sheet goods to build a new platform and frame for all of the components.

I too have been wrestling with how to best keep the top hat stationary to minimize any turbulence issues associated with using ribbed flex, but wanting the bottom Brute container to be easy remove and empty. Two untried approaches I am considering so far, both would rest the chip container on a "loose" platform of plywood resting on top of the wheeled cart. One thought was to make a lever operated "cam" rod out of something like 3/4" conduit and shaped wooden blocks to raise the loose plywood platform against the fixed top hat. If it worked it would be really slick, but it seemed I might be experimenting with the shape of the cam blocks for awhile before I got them right.

The second thought was to just sink a couple screw eyes up high on the outside of the plywood uprights and run a simple ratchet strap under the loose plywood platform. All I would need to do is crank the ratchet strap lever a couple of times to snug the loose plywood platform and chip barrel up against the fixed top hat separator. This method would require essentially no fabrication or trial and error. I think I will end up trying this out first, as it appeals to my lazy side...

Given, that finding the time to make the parts for the separator is proving challenging to me, I have no doubt that one of you will find a way to do this long before I am able to experiment with the best method myself... but I thought I'd throw the ideas out there in the meantime. If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll see if I can sketch my ideas up and post them here.

Thanks for your ideas Chuck and Jason, it is good to know I am on the right track.

Jason - from some of your other posts, it sounds like you are running 6" pipe throughout, too. While I elected to run 6" PVC, over metal - I think we are just about equivalent piping-wise. My longest run might be 30-35 feet with all long 45 transitions. For whatever reason, my Grizzly 1029 claims to be a 2hp - based on your experience, do you think I will encounter any problems with having enough "suckage" when combined with the top hat style separator and Wynn filter?

I'm trying to ease the transition from the high in-feed pipe to the lower horizontal top hat connection in only about 4' of space. I think if I can resolve that fairly cleanly, I should be all set. With any luck, I'll be able to make some progress on things this weekend.

Thanks for the reply Chuck. Your version "C", does give me a little straighter run from the in-feed main to the top hat, but does require me to come up with a long radius elbow from the blower and that means I'd have to punch a hole in the top of the Wynn filter to feed the exhaust air through the filter. That might be more metal work then I want to tackle. Maybe the long radius elbow is something I could have fab'd up locally at an HVAC shop, or see if maybe an Oneida ready-made one would fit.

You see any issues with dumping into the plywood filter holder box with a clean out drawer? I'm assuming the fines that make it that far through the system should be minimal. I actually could raise the closet ceiling up as far as needed to put the top hat directly in line with the main, but then it puts the collection barrel up so high I don't think I would want to lift it down when it got full.

By the way, how did you manage to chop up and reassemble my .pdf? I was having a heck of a time shrinking the original file down to under the 156K file posting limit.

Hi all - I am currently using an older 2hp Grizzly 1029 (similar to a Harbor Freight DC) with an aftermarket Wynn filter on it. For the time being, it is rolled around and connected to each machine as needed, but I am just about finished running the last of my 6" PVC for a central system. I've done everything I can think of to minimize the runs, and used 45's everywhere I had to make a direction change. Since the budget for the big Clearvue DC is a ways off yet, I want to mod out the Griz DC to be as efficient as possible in the meantime.

I plan to build a small bumpout closet space just outside the shop walls that the termination of the DC runs to, but since it was laid out for a tall cyclone, the DC pipe is high up on the wall and not down low where the Griz DC's inlet is. To make the transition back down to the interim Griz DC / baffle combination I have to utilize a number of 45's. If I go with the Top Hat pre-separator design, I see two ways I might be able to connect to the Top Hat. Which one would cause the least pressure and velocity drop? (see attached image).

Secondly, I can either reuse the Griz bag ring for the Wynn filter holder, or if the baffle works as well as everyone says it does, then maybe I could build my own plywood "filter holder" box and just add a small sealed clean out drawer at the bottom for the few fines that get through the baffle.

Any of you smarter and more experienced types have insight you might be willing to offer? Any advice you have would be appreciated. I'm hoping to only have to fab this up once and want to create the best efficiency without unnecessary effort until I can spring for the true cyclone.

I thinking about tackling an internal Thien baffle for my new to me Grizzy 1029 2 hp DC this weekend. I finally am getting a long awaited woodshop put together with the proper tools (Jet cab saw, combo J/P,etc) and unfortunately the hard-piped 3hp cyclone is going to have to wait.

Since I managed to score the Griz DC for free, I thought I'd upgrade the bags to a Wynn filter and try the easiest and cheapest version of a internal Thien separator first and then move to an external drum separator only if I needed to.

Here's my question: The Griz 1029 has a shallow conical ring just inside the metal bag support. Can I get away with installing only the bottom 120/240 baffle in the lower part of the bag ring using the appropriate nom. 5" tall standoffs attached the underside of the conical ring - or do I need a separate full circle top baffle plate above the conical ring too?

Also, should I be concerned about sealing the bottom baffle to the inside of the griz bag ring with silicone, or is an air tight seal in the 120 degree area not critical?

Sorry to be asking questions that should probably be obvious to me, but most of the posted pics seem to focus on separate barrel installs where the need for a top plate to seal the can is imperative.