J. Phil Thien's Projects

Doug,

If you haven't found it yet, maybe this will help you to understand what the idea is.  Go to www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=145.0 for a picture essay on how to add a Thein baffle to a dc.  It may require a little measuring to adapt to your machine, but nothing you can't handle. The most important things are the size and orientation of the drop slot, and getting a good fit.  The pipe connector that serves as exit from the collector/entrance to the filter needs to be dead center and to protrude about 1" or 1 1/2". 

The baffle will keep dust in the bag and will eliminate filter clogging.  You will still need to empty the bag.  To avoid that, you will have to add a full-boogie SEPARATOR in-line ahead of the dc.  This will catch nearly all dust before it goes through the impeller (important if you sweep the floor with the dc), but adds complexity, takes up space, and decreases somewhat the static pressure. 

There's lots of info here.  I added the baffle to my HF dc and am thrilled, then added a separator to my shop vac.  Built a roll-around cart with the vac on top and collection barrel beneath.  Same horizontal footprint as just the vac.  I have had to blow out the filter in the vac twice in 2 years.  NOTHING gets past the separator. 

Good luck.

Steve

Doug,

I'm a little confused about what you're doing too.  If you're modifying a ordinary dc, no need to turn the ring upside down or run a pipe through the cone into the Wynn.  A simple plywood or hardboard baffle, 1-90* elbow, and 1 pvc connector, 3 screws, bolts, whatever.  Couldn't be simpler.  Follow the posts, look at the pics, and come back if you need help.  The only dumb question is the one you didn't ask.

Steve

Read some more.  You're at the end of the train.  Go to page 23 in this forum and look at the pictures in one of the posts there and that should answer most of your questions.  Also, D. B. Host gave very full detailed instructions on how to build a separator for a shop vac.  About the same time frame as the post I mentioned, another poster published a video of a HF dc conversion.  Read from back to front in this site to catch up.  Lots of stuff here, you just have to get grounded.

Steve

Phil,

I regret the way this is playing out, but I have a suggestion as to how you may be able to prevail.  You have the premier site on the web on dust collection.  You are a smart guy with lots of ideas going on, you have name recognition, good will, and a pretty good size footprint in the woodworking community.  All these are significant assets.  USE THEM!!!!

If you look at sites such as  www.woodgears.ca, ibuildit.ca, Charles Neil's site, the woodwhisperer, ad infinitum, two things they all have in common are regular visitors, and TONS OF ADVERTISERS!  Now why should you be any different?  You have the knowledge EVERY woodworker needs, you have the floor when it comes to this subject, use that to your advantage.

This is a big expensive hobby and here you come with a nickle & dime solution to something that kills people; every distributor and manufacturer would beat a path to your door to get to pay you money to advertise with you.

If I were you, the first steps I would take would be to talk with Matthias Wandell and John Heiz about how the have/are developing their sites.  You have a lot of ideas, you're extremely smart, and a genuinely nice guy.  I want to see you prosper for all you've given rather than spin your wheels in costly legal battles.  Even if you do persue legal options, this could help pay the way.

Think it over.  You've been mentioned in major magazines, Matthias just plugged you on his site, you're out there.  You are on the edge of the dust collection bubble.  It is going to be bigger than ever.  Make them pay to be associated with you.  Pump up your site a little, talk to some people, and see what you can do.

If I had a million dollars, I'd give it to you, but I don't.  All I can do is to encourage you and hope for the best.  This is sill America and dreams can still come true.

Steve

Hello all,

Finally got to HF yesterday to get a clamp-on multi meter.  Expected to pay $16 but found a coupon for $10.  Tried it out and with the dc hooked up to the ts with 10' of 4" hose, a Thien separator in the dc, and about 1/3 bag full of dust.  At start-up it pulls 21-22 amps for a split second and drops to 9.5 to 10 amps and stays there.

HF's rating for this motor is 20 amps (peak)--their parenthesis--meaning probably at least 15 amps or better actual rating.  Therefor, there would seem to be pleanty of headroom for improvement.  The next step will be a second separator ahead of the blower, then a conversion to 6" hose.  This multimeter is handy and cheap!

Steve

PS.  Find the coupon for the meter @ www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/common/displayPage.do?pageFile=usa_cpnsave.html

PPS.  The coupon is good only through the 12th.

VAUGHN,

Yes, it surely does.  What is really a trip is watching the dust head to the bottom of the bag at a 45* angle and freakin' Stay there!  It just circles around.  I don't think anything has gotten into the filter yet.  It's truly amazing how smart someone has to be to come up with something so blindlingly simple.

As for you, DB, what you have so patiently done is to explain that which is blindingly simple in terms that a simpleton such as myself could not only understand, but execute.  Thanks. 

And the same again for Phil. 

Steve

Duane,

Thanks for the help.  I'll get to HF this coming week.  When I get an idea of what the motor pulls, I'll post it--if I don't fry myself.  Do you still rebuild motors?  I have a 38 year old Craftsman 9" bench that still runs fine, but I'd hate to loose it someday.

Steve

Duane,

Would the Harbor Fright-uh, Freight- 95652 clamp-on multimeter work?  I can get one tomorrow for $16.00.  If not I'll have to spend $40.00 Monday.  Either way, I'm going to do this right.

Thanks,
Steve

DB,

Sorry, my friend.  It is 12 3/4", but I don't think 3/4" will make a lot of difference.  The blower housing, if memory serves, is about 14" in diameter.  The big concern, as Phil says, is will the motor handle it?  I think I'm going to shoot for #1 then #2 and call it a day.  Going one tool at a time should give me plenty of headroom even with the hit I'll take on cfm, and then if my impeller can't handle the 6" tubing, I can always go back to 4".

I want to thank you, Phil, for your willingness to share your work.  I hope you get seriously rich from this.  And DB, thankyou for your help to all.  You are both a blessing to a guy with only one lung.

Steve

Phil,

I built a Thien Separator for my HF 2hp dc with a Wyyn filter and it seems to be working fine.  However, with a housefull of furniture to build the plastic collection bag will fill quickly and they're a bear to put on.  I intend next to get the blower up, mount it straight into the collector ring and mount a trash can beneath the blower with a second (or first in line) separator to get most of the  junk before it gets to the plastic bag. So, my questions are:

1.  Will 2 separators negatively affect what is pretty good collection?  I go only tool to tool with 10' of 4" flex hose as I have neither room to assign fixed positions for each tool, nor money to build an elaborate ductwork system.

2.  Going tool-to-tool as I do, is 4" ok or should I make a new inlet cover for the dc to allow for 6" hose?

3.  If I go to 6", keeping in mind that I hook only one tool up at a time, would my puny 10" impeller be sufficient, or should I get a Grizzly 12" (about $80 I'd rather not spend) that is a bolt-on replacement.

Thanks,

Steve

Phil,

I finished  Wednesday night.  Would have done it sooner but we take care of our 2 grandkids every day(grumble, grumble).  The only difficult part was stretching the plastic bag to fit the separator ring.  The whole thing took less than an hour or so.  So far, it works beautifully.  It's a real treat to watch the dust angle down to the bottom of the bag at an almost 45* angle and then STAY there with just a little swirling at the top of the pile. 

I know it's working because I am sensitive to some woods.  I currently working Bloodwood, and although not alergic, I am very aware of the smell.  I don't smell anything now which tells me that the filter is working well, and I get NO dust when I tap or flip the filter, which according to the SWAG method of evaluating performance, tells me the  Thien Separator works perfectly.

I'll post pictures when my technical proficiency catches up.  It looks just like Vaughn's except I didn't paint it purple.  Seriously,  thanks to you, Phil, DBHost, Vaughn, and all the other posters.  This site is Very helpful, informative, and demonstrative of the co-operative spirit that seems to be common amongst woodworkers.

By the way:  The angle I used for the dowels in my separator was 31*.  Worked fine.

Thanks,
Steve

Phil,

Never mind.  I just answered my own stupid question.  Now off to the shop to finish this booger up.  I have high hopes.  Thanks again.

Steve

Phil,

Thankyou so much for sharing your research.  From what I've read, this will literally be a life saver.

Two questions, if I may:  I started last night with the conversion of my HF 2hp dc.  I'm adding a Wynn filter and building your sinfully simple baffle.  I even understand the principles involved (now that you've pointed them out), and will finish tonight, but I am in doubt about how long to make the dowell spacers for the baffle.  Maybe I missed it in all the posts here, but I'm thinking 3 inckes oir so?

Secondly,  I hope you get seriously rich from this.  You deserve it.  If I had money to invest, I'd be on this like a coat of paint.  Have you considered Lee Valley as a marketing partner.  They're big, they're recognized the world over for quality and customer service, and they are like you, class people.

Thanks

Steve