J. Phil Thien's Projects

Any thoughts on how to attach the bag to the outside?   without leaking?   Tucking it inside with that expansion ringy thingy is a real hassle for sure.    Maybe some sort of band?  It just seems -- being on the outside, that the air pressure is going to work very much against it.   Whereas with the JET design -- ugly as it is -- the air pressure actually helps hold it in-place.   Sort of like the old sink stoppers.   The more water in the sink the better the stopper works.

That said, has anyone figured a way to attach to the outside and also do away with the bag -- which eventually gets holes, cracks, etc.   

I think to attach the Wynn on my 20" Jet, I can simply use bungy type ties downs across the top of the filter to several locations below.

I read the FWW article a couple days ago.  It's a decent tribute to "one of us" who came up with a brilliant idea -- and should have rights to it.

I made the baffle for the Jet a few years back.   It works well.  I use 6" sewer & drain tube to my tools, and then 6" flex to my homemade gates (taken from other online contributors).    So all 6" which I doubt FWW tested.   They probably stepped it down to 4", but if you read any of Bill Pentz's stuff (another great contributor to this hobby), you'll understand his argument for 6" end to end.   6" is double the area of 4", and so airflow is much greater than 4".   But with that increased airflow, getting particles to drop out of the air stream can be harder.  I have found my Thien baffle works well.   

I do have the issue with the Jet band for holding the lower bag in-place.   I may have made my "drop slot" a bit bigger, but there is some disturbance there for sure.   I'd really like to replace that lower bag entirely -- some simpler way to attach and remove the chips.  As far as attaching the Wynn filter atop, I think a couple, or maybe 3 even 4 bungee type cords could be strapped over the filter and down to the housing.  That should work for the case where the cone is continuous and the Wynn is slightly smaller diameter.   The turnbuckles that come with it, seem to be a hassle IMO.  A few strap would take seconds to unhook, etc.

Anyway, Phil --- seeing acknowledgement in FWW for your contributions was great.  Hopefully the mag does more of this in the future.

Maybe I jumped the gun.   The one time I did find some chips, etc in the pleats was when I filled the lower bag right to the top.   I just checked this AM, and at 1/5th full, there were no chips in the pleats -- just fines.   That was after I had used compressed air to blow from the outside, but even then, as I watched, very little dropped out.    So using 6" ducting seems to work great.   The 1.5HP Jet canister version I have actually has a 6" inlet, but 5" outlet to the seperator ring.   I have about a 10' 6" main duct and then use wye's to branch to my TS and Jointer.  At the end of the 10' main I attach to my bandsaw.  I have a 6" gate at each tool. 

If this is for the sander only -- and you plan to vent outside -- then I'm not sure I'd worry about collecting ANY of the dust in either a cyclone or baffled container.  Why?  How much sanding will you do?  It seems with sanding the "fines" will be pretty much all of what you are going to collect.

I'd look at Bill Pentz's site for suggestions on dust hoods and using at least 6" ducting.   I'd think catching the dust at the source would be the bigger design challenge.   I'm guessing the cyclone is probably a bit more effective if you do go that route, though I have zero experience to prove that.   Generally the cyclone is considered the caddilac of dust collection.   

My internal baffle on the Jet cartridge single stage collector is impressive.    I just pulled the filter earlier and there is nothing lodged in the pleats.  I did blast it from the outside with compressed air -- but even then, I only saw a tiny amount of dust settle.   Once I did let the bag fill to the top and then it did suck larger pieces up into the filter, but the bag is about 1/5th full now and there was no large particles in the pleats.   It was a "pleasure" to take the cartridge off -- when before it was a miserable experience.   

I built something quite similar for my Jet 1.5HP cartridge unit.  I know I should get the Wynn filters to improve filtration.   Instead of dowels, I just attached the baffle with 3 small aluminum angle brackets.  I put 2 on the outside solid portion of the baffle (one at each end) and then one in the center of the drop slot.  I did not have a rivet gun, so I used small bolts and tapped some threads in the aluminum.   

I use 6" sewer & drain pipe and a very short chunk of 6" flex to each machine.   I seem to still get some suction of particles up into the filter, but not even close to what it used to be.   Also, with the baffle the plastic bag at the bottom does not get beaten and torn with all the swirling debris like it used to.   I can probably reuse the bags now and previously the bags were getting nicked and developing small holes.

I also found the cartridge hold-down bolts to not be very effective at keeping the filter tight to the body.  Before I would put 50 pounds of stuff atop before tightening the bolts, but this time , I ran a ratchet tie down strap over the top ( http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-1-inch-x-15-ft-ratcheting-tie-down-set-90984.html ).   A 2nd perpendicular strap would probably help.   I just pull the strap snug -- I don't want to crush the seal gasket too much.

I built the baffle for my Jet 1.5HP cartridge DC.   It works well.   I run 6" lines -- mostly s&d pipe, and then at most two feet of 6" flex to each machine.   I made my own 6" gates.   My runs are very short.  The TS is about 6' away from the DC, the BS and Jointer are 10'.   Thanks to Bill Pentz for all his work and recommendation to run 6" to each tool.  It makes a big difference.   He points out that with 6" lines the trashcan type seperator lids do not work well -- as the airflow just pulls the chips through.    I suspect a similar sort of thing is happening with my Thein baffle.   Seperation is much better with it, but still some chips do get up into the pleats.   

Pretty old article and based on bags -- better route today is the cartridge filters - wynn if you need to buy aftermarket.

If the collector has a 6" port, use it.   I tossed-out my 6" to dual 4" splitter and run 6" to every machine.   I have a reducer to 4" on my 12.5" planer because that's the fitting size.  I hate it and need to fabricate my own 6" fitting. 

5" would work -- but it might be tough to find pipe & flex.  With 6", sewer & drain pipe and fittings can be found at plumbing/irrigation places.

See Bill Pentz's site -- go with 6" everywhere, keep the runs short.   

I'm using a Jet 1100C with my "main" 10' long and the TS, jointer, and BS connected with flex directly into a wye.  The main goes to a 45 and wye at the DC (which I may remove soon as I don't think I'm going need the other perpendicular main I was planning).  The flex from the main wye to the tool is 3 foot.   

So it's true I only have the TS, BS, and jointer on the DC (I unhook the BS and attach the planer as needed).  I had made provisions for the DP and miter saw.   The shop vac at the DP seems to be fine -- and I don't have to worry about sucking up bits and small parts.   I've not yet figured out a way to shoud the miter, so tend to haul it outside or just use the TS and my crosscut sled (which is more accurate). 

I like 6" ducting to the tools -- per Bill Pentz.   It really makes a big, big, difference.   It takes time to replace the std 4" fittings on the tools, but it's not too bad.   Bandaw, Jointer, and Table saw were relatively painless.   I'm still procrastinating on 12" planer and miter saw.  The gates take some time also.   6" just moves so much more air -- the small stuff is getting drawn in.   4" is probably a good chip collector -- 6" starts to get the smaller stuff.  With my 6" runs -- and now the Thein baffle, I need to get the Wynn filter instead of stock Jet.

I've not tried a seperator container yet, but did make the thein baffle for my Jet 1100C.  Suction seems to be very good -- hard to say if it's as good as an empty bag/clean filter, but with none of the chips and probably much less of the fines getting to the filter, it has to be superior to what it was before.  I tried to clean the filter well before I installed the baffle, but it was so caked full, after 30 mins I relented.   

Jet 1100C

This is the one with the cartridge and plastic bottom bag held in-place with "band" that fits inside the collector and presses the bag against the metal ring housing (sorry for bad description).

I made a baffle 19.75" and the inner 18.5" (1.25" gap).   19.75" fit well once the 1.25" gap was cut-out.  There is a "ripple" just below the inlet with a gap of about 2" where the "band" fits.  The band is about 1" wide.   I fit the baffle right on the "ripple", so it's about 2" above the bottom of the collector metal ring and probably 1/2" below the inlet.   My only concern is the ripple, band, and bag subtract from the 1.25" gap -- so my effective gap is between 1" and 1-1/8".

The "vortex cone" looks pretty flimsy to me, and from the reading here, Thien's baffle seems to be the superior design, so I'm off considering how to adapt my older Jet cartridge DC.   I'm still using the Jet cartridge, which I suppose is like 5 micron or such.   A better filter would be something I should consider.   Anyway.. for now...  re: the baffle.

Theory of operation -- it seems the theory is that the heavier particles "fling" out along the edge and drop into the bag below.   But it does seem to me that the lighter ones would just get sucked "up" into the filter - not?  I can see how the baffle helps to keep the stuff below in the bag as the baffle obviously has to slow the "swirl".   

So the baffle actual goes under the inlet -- about how far below should I locate it?   Another poster suggested using L-brackets to hold, which seems like a good idea --3 around the ring (2 on the larger diam ring that touches the DC, and one perhaps in the middle of the "slot".  Where should the "slot" be placed in relationship to the inlet?   

Thoughts?