J. Phil Thien's Projects

retired2, makes sense.
I'm right at the point now where I'm trying to convert 5in to 2x4in slitter setup directly off the system into 6in galvanized pipe with short 4in hose sections nested on that pipe.

DustySanders, I took that into account, didn't include any measurements over the bellmouth opening, they were quite off and I couldn't calculate properly what those CFMs would be.

retired2, I think the difference you and I see is because I did all the measurements without any hose attached into the input (which I admit is not a real life scenario). Getting blower measurement with say 10 ft of hose attached directly to the blower will lower flow significantly. Then if I'd do the same with 10 ft hose attached to separator, it'll be lower as well (vs. no hose), but the different wouldn't be as significant since we already got some flow loss over separator. As a result the flow difference (Blower+hose) vs. (blower+separator+hose) would be less comparing to scenario (blower) vs. (blower+separator).

Quote from: retired2 on October 07, 2019, 07:20:30 PM
SpaceGrey,

I want to compliment you.  You are one of the few people who have built different configurations and then captured data to show what each one is going.  That is one helluva lot of work, but the data is so valuable.  The has been a lot said about the performance of 2X separators, but unless my memory is failing me, it has all been subjective.  Yours is the first I have seen with actual data.

I agree, it is interesting that the 2X doesn?t seem to care about the outlet pipe ending.

Thanks again for a great piece of work.  Unfortunately, you still don?t have a conclusive answer to why your performance losses are so much higher than mine.

Appreciate your compliment.
I think I'll try to get to the bottom of it once I get my mental capacity recharged :)

Few question about your setup:
- What size inlet pipe goes into your impeller? Mine is 5".
- Have you measured your impeller flow in bare configuration? Nothing attached to it at all, no filter, no nothing?

BTW, adding that additional lip to create additional flow curve before it hits air from intake (per your link above) didn't provide any improvement in my case.

Here are my air flow measurements for all the modifications done to this point (both TopHat and Cyclone are 19" diameter, Harbor Freight impeller with original 5 inch intake plate):
- Impeller only nothing added: ~7000 ft/min which equals to 950 cfm (5 inch inlet)
- 6 inch TH with no outlet pipe: ~2800 ft/min - 380 cfm (60% loss)
- 6 inch TH with 3D printed straight outlet: ~ 3000 ft/min - 410 cfm (57% loss)
- 6 inch TH with 3D printed Parabolic outlet: ~ 3500 ft/min - 470 cfm (50% loss)
- 11 inch TH with long parabolic outlet: ~3600 ft/min - 490 cfm (48% loss)
- 11 inch TH with short straight outlet: ~ 3500 ft/min - 470 cfm  (50% loss) - this is interesting, taller TH doesn't care if outlet straight or bell-mouthed

Finally cyclone numbers from the pic in previous reply:
- Cyclone with impeller assembly as is (5 inch intake into blower assembly): ~ 4600 ft/min - 620 cfm (34% loss)
- Cyclone with impeller intake replaced by 8 inch intake adapter (see pic):  5200 ft/min - 700 cfm (25% loss)

At this point I'm thinking that if I would do the same thing with TopHat separator (remove 5 inch intake and replace it with 8 inch intake) it should improve performance (at least for Harbor Freight impeller).

Here's how I spent my weekend:
Decided to build up my 11 inch TopHat into cyclone, but end up completely redoing it along the way.
As a result build Pentz style cyclone out of cheapest possible materials (hardboard for top part, galvanized flashing for a cone, plus plywood and 2x4 and some 3d printed pipes)
I was planning to use it just as a test (hence the cheapest material) to see how much better it is compared to TopHap design.
Along the way I spent so much time and got mentally exhausted, so I think I will stop here and will use what I build till it falls apart.
This cyclone on top of the bucket is so tall, it's almost touching my garage ceiling also I was barely able to squeeze it into the corner by garage door rails, but it worked at the end.

Retired2, what do you use for impeller?
I think impeller is a culprit here, mine is "so called 2HP" Harbor Freight.

Quote from: retired2 on October 02, 2019, 01:05:41 PM
The first photo in your most recent group appears to show the inlet wall straight rather than curved.  That could cause turbulence in the circling air stream and contribute to flow losses.  The post below illustrates the point.

http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=563.msg3150#msg3150

I took that picture before making everything round, it's not straight in reality.
I'm also going to attempt making your tweak from the post mentioned later tonight.

Quote from: retired2 on September 30, 2019, 07:23:11 PM
Sorry, I don?t have an answer.  It looks like your air straightener has a lot of vanes, but I?m not sure how that could be any worse than my plastic tubes.

What?s the ID of your separator chamber?

It's 19''
I got those vanes inside to do what plastic tubes does in your system,  figured it's better to get it built in to increase rigidity at the same time.
And in the first picture I measure flow of impeller through that tube and it measured at ~7000 ft/min

This afternoon rebuild it to 11'' tall vs. 6.5 in pictures above.
Gained just a little, now it gets to ~3600 ft/min with parabolic outlet.
(Shrink-wrap and tape are temporary methods of getting it airtight)

Quote from: retired2 on September 29, 2019, 06:49:02 PM
38% for mine.

Master, point me to the error of my way!

video:   youtu.be/EaMDVEIaW1k

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum.
Getting my separator build going.
Trying to do what I think is a "proper" job measuring CFM losses as I add components to the system.
I got my end filter part build and working with almost no flow loss to my excitement.
Now Top Hat separator attempts so far disappointing, I'm measuring flow with cheap anemometer on 5 inch inlets/outlets:
- Impeller only nothing added: ~7000 ft/min
- Top Hat with 3D printed Parabolic internal outlet: ~ 3500 ft/min
- Top hat with 3D printed straight inlet pipe: below 3000 ft/min

Is this to be expected? 50% flow loss is kind of high IMHO!

This is where link to a Video was supposed to be, but system told me I can't post external links :(